JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
The FX show "The Bear" came into last night's Emmy Awards with the most comedy nominations. In his opening monologue, actor Eugene Levy, hosting with his son, Dan, waded into a debate that's been called category fraud.
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EUGENE LEVY: I know some of you might be expecting us to make a joke about whether "The Bear" is really a comedy, but in the true spirit of "The Bear," we will not be making any jokes.
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SUMMERS: Now, "The Bear" did take home some big wins, but the top comedy prize went to "Hacks." That's a show about comedians themselves. And the sweeping historical drama "Shogun" closed out a record-breaking Emmy season. Critic Linda Holmes hosts NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour podcast and is here to help us keep all of these shows straight. Hey, Linda.
LINDA HOLMES, BYLINE: Hi, Juana.
SUMMERS: So, Linda, I just want to say to start, I have not seen this show. You are the expert, so I'm going to need you to help me out. Was "Hacks" actually worthy of the top comedy spot this year?
HOLMES: A hundred percent. This was an exceptionally good season for "Hacks." It's on Max. It's about this aging stand-up comedian played by Jean Smart, who won the award for best actress in a comedy last night, and her relationship working with this younger comedy writer who's played by Hannah Einbinder.
"The Bear" did still get some major wins last night on the comedy side. It won for lead actor. That went to Jeremy Allen White as Carmy. It won for supporting actor - Ebon Moss-Bachrach as Cousin Richie. It won for supporting actress - Liza Colon-Zayas playing Tina. It also won for directing, for the episode "Fishes," which is the big holiday party episode that a lot of people loved.
But then, you know, in the writing category, it didn't win. "Hacks" won. And then the big one, top comedy, also "Hacks." And I think it may be that some people who were perfectly fine with rewarding the wonderful performances on "The Bear" were hesitant, nevertheless, to give the top award to something they didn't really think was a comedy. And, you know, FX and Hulu had a little bit of an incentive to treat it as a comedy so it wouldn't compete with "Shogun." That did not work out the way maybe they hoped.
SUMMERS: OK, let's talk about "Shogun." I mean, if I'm correct, that show broke a record this Emmy season with that huge haul, right?
HOLMES: Yeah, they absolutely did. They won a total of 18. "Shogun" had won 14 times at the Creative Arts Emmys last weekend. That was for things like casting and cinematography. And then on Sunday, they took home outstanding drama series in addition to awards for lead actor Hiroyuki Sanada, lead actress Anna Sawai and director Frederick E.O. Toye.
These kinds of epics are not as popular as they once were. In a lot of the speeches last night, FX and Hulu were praised for being willing to support this very expensive period piece, largely with subtitles. It'll be interesting to see whether, you know, there's an effort to make more things like this, like the ones that used to air in the '70s and '80s, like, you know, "North And South" or the original TV adaptation of "Shogun," which aired in 1980.
SUMMERS: Before I let you go, Linda, I do have to ask you about the Netflix show "Baby Reindeer." That's, of course, the very dark comedy about a struggling comic who ends up being stalked. Now, the creator and star of "Baby Reindeer," Richard Gadd, was on stage a whole lot last night, but there is more to that story.
HOLMES: There is. Netflix is being sued by the woman who says she inspired the stalker who's played by Jessica Gunning, who won last night also. But that did not bother Emmy voters, who gave Gadd three opportunities to make speeches. And one of the points he made is that the show did not have established intellectual property it was based on, didn't have established stars, and it became a hit anyway. And it would be lovely to think that Netflix, and maybe other outlets, will take the lesson that that kind of risk can pay off. And that's perhaps, you know, the lesson of "Shogun" as well. I certainly am hoping that they will take the lead from those victories in that sense.
SUMMERS: Linda Holmes, host of NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour. Thanks, Linda.
HOLMES: Thank you.
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