Paul Bryant's Reviews > Brief Interviews with Hideous Men

Brief Interviews with Hideous Men by David Foster Wallace
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it was ok
bookshelves: short-modern-americans

ON HAVING HAD IT WITH DAVID FOSTER WALLACE FOR THE MOMENT

Given that most of my goodread friends love DFW with immoderate, alarming gusto, this requires some kind of explanation.

There’s a direct parallel between DFW and James Joyce. They both tended perpetually towards the encyclopaedic. They were utterly indifferent to audience expectation - even to the modernist, avantgardish audience they themselves created. Their main books are vast, oceanic, limitless affairs. They appeared to wish to use eventually every single word ever admitted into the English language and a shedload of foreign ones too. You might say they were both insufferable know-it-alls. They had a delightful propensity for going off on rants or lists or ranting lists in their books - these are from the present book :

we called them Granola Crunchers or simply Crunchers, terms
comprising the prototypical sandals, unrefined fibers, daffy arcana, emotional incontinence, flamboyantly long hair, extreme liberality on social issues, financial support from parents they revile, bare feet, obscure import religions, indifferent hygiene, a gooey and somewhat canned vocabulary, the whole predictable peace and love post-Hippie diction


or

Lying there helpless and connected, she says her senses had taken on the nearly unbearable acuity we associate with drugs or extreme meditative states. She could distinguish lilac and shattercane’s scents from phlox and lambs’-quarter, the watery mind of first-growth clover. Wearing a corbeau leotard beneath a kind of loose-waisted cotton dirndl and on one wrist a great many bracelets of pinchbeck copper.

But there’s a difference between the ocean of Joyce and the ocean of DFW, or what I have observed of it. Joyce had a plan and he stuck to it. DFW, it seems, never sticks to the point in his writing (forever interrupting himself, subverting his own text with page long footnotes, or end notes, forever entangling us readers in his sperm-whale-sized syntactic constructions, forever digressing) because he wasn’t that sure there actually was a point. He thought there should be but he wasn’t sure he’d discovered it. He was an out of control noticing machine (that’s not my phrase). All of his writing is suffused with unbearable acuity we associate with drugs or extreme meditative states. It's like breathing poisoned air. He writes about “addiction” and “tennis” and “parental abuse” and whatnot, all daytime tv subjects. He was mighty literary power-drill cracking a nut. Not much left of the nut when he’s done. Not much of a nut to begin with.

I’m not saying the reason I love Joyce & unlove DFW is that Joyce was a general ordering a successful campaign and DFW was a lonely guerilla hacking through the jungle with a dead radio. One's heart lies with the guerilla, after all. But there’s also the matter of JJ’s gorgeous way with words and effortless humour. Even his fans may concede that DFW’s logorrhific outpouring is often ugly, deliberately ugly. And also that reading JJ & DFW is like attending a service at the Church of Giant Brains - there's a great choir, fab stained glass windows, but it's so chilly, and it makes you feel like an ant, a bad ant who does bad things.

DFW’s narrators are most of the time like a rat in a trap, ceaselessly whirling around in a confined space, hysterically looking for the way out, but there’s no way out of their own awful sensibilities into the world, and I can’t help but think that as his characters, so it was with DFW himself, never getting to the end of his own endless sentences until the day he just wrote a full stop and had done with it.

DFW's own motto might be from p247 of this book :

I’m aware of how all this sounds and can well imagine the judgements you’re forming

***

Note - two stars just for my own discomforting reading experience. I think it's a four star piece of writing. But I don't like it.
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Reading Progress

Started Reading
October 18, 2010 – Finished Reading
October 27, 2010 – Shelved
June 14, 2013 – Shelved as: short-modern-americans

Comments Showing 1-50 of 58 (58 new)


message 1: by Manny (new)

Manny The vote's for your writing, you understand, not for the sentiments you express. Need to go back to the kitchen, will supply endnotes and sub-endnotes later...


message 2: by Scribble (last edited Oct 27, 2010 06:48AM) (new)

Scribble Orca Manny wrote: "The vote's for your writing, you understand, not for the sentiments you express. Need to go back to the kitchen, will supply endnotes and sub-endnotes later..."

I sat up and took notice of this when I saw Manny's update. Interesting how your review starts to mimic the style of the extracts - and I mean that in a good way, because now I'm even more curious to pick up a DFW book.


message 3: by Joshua Nomen-Mutatio (last edited Oct 27, 2010 06:50AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Joshua Nomen-Mutatio 'course, I couldn't disagree more.

"I want it to sound more like somebody thinking and less like somebody talking. This can make it hard to read sometimes."

-DFW, this interview translated from German: http://www.thehowlingfantods.com/dfw/...

The selection you choose to cite is an odd one, given your intentions. Do you not recall what kind of person is supposed to be voicing that line in the story? It's a vicious, hyper-educated sociopath who serially loves'n'leaves women in the cruelest of ways. The voice is perfect for that inherently emotionally-distant character and beyond that it's, to me, darkly funny. I enjoy the sentence you extracted and see not one word too many there.

But all is well when you end your review thusly: "Note - two stars just for my own discomforting reading experience. I think it's a four star piece of writing. But I don't like it."

At least you admit it.


Joshua Nomen-Mutatio Paul, you should check out the interview. He talks directly to a lot of what bothers you about his style. It might not make you like reading him any more (or dislike it less, I should say), but at least can show you some of the reasoning behind his stylistic choices.


message 5: by Thom (new)

Thom Dunn Something of the Medieval in James Joyce's encyclopedic views. Novelists and list-makers.....and collectors. Aristotelians, all.


Krok Zero Paul, for what it's worth, I don't think anyone would cite Brief Interviews as one of Wallace's best books. My own reaction to it was exceedingly "meh," as the kids say, coming to it as I did right after finishing the mostly-hype-justifying Infinite Jest. What I'm saying is you shouldn't judge an author by his minor works.


Paul Bryant Hello, My Flesh - I don't doubt the well-thought-out reasons DFW had for his styles. JJ likewise made choices which were deliberately difficult for the reader. I was going to make a direct comparison between one of the pieces in Brief Interviews and the Eumaeus chapter of Ulysses, it's the same technique. But for me, there's a big beautiful reason why we're being hard done to by the author in Ulysses, but in IJ and Brief Interviews, the reason isn't - for me, for me! - big enough. Often it seems that the subjects DFW is parodying/lambasting have been parodied/lambasted many times before - not better, just many times before.


message 8: by Joshua Nomen-Mutatio (last edited Oct 27, 2010 07:36AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Joshua Nomen-Mutatio It is probably his most hit-or-miss work. But when it hits, for me, it does so in a five star resulting way.

"Forever Overhead", the one consisting solely of a long father and son deathbed scene, most of the titular "interviews", "The Depressed Person", the one Paul quoted in his review, and probably a few more I can't recall just now, are examples of these for me.

The Greek-mythology-made-modern one was a failed experiment, however.


David Paul, for what it's worth, I don't think anyone would cite Brief Interviews as one of Wallace's best books.

Hey. Not so fast there. I would. (But I admittedly haven't read everything.) I love this book, and every short story in it except for one -- which I can't remember right now.

FIVE stars all the way across the sky.


Joshua Nomen-Mutatio Now that I think about it, you'll probably love Oblivion, David. Or have you read it already?


David No, I haven't yet. But I own it. It's lodged halfway up a precarious pile of unread books in my closet.


message 12: by Joshua Nomen-Mutatio (last edited Oct 27, 2010 07:51AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Joshua Nomen-Mutatio The first story's an anomaly. The rest aren't that, um, impenetrable? jargon-filled? I recommend skipping it at least when first reading the collection. Though the above-cited interview (c. the release/promotion of Oblivion) has a few explanatory tidbits, that filtered through Wallace, make it sound pretty interesting:

"You can put it this way: Nothing today is left to chance, everything is controlled. And it is this which causes all that confusion. This is fascinating. For example, if you're watching a TV ad, there's that color of that girl's dress that's been tested over and over again by focus groups and psychologists who wanna know everything inside the consumers mind. I describe this world in the story 'Mister Squishy.'"

"With 'Mister Squishy,' for example, I had the idea of a jury, twelve men who have to come to an agreement. But the story is actually about how it feels like to be inside this huge market research mechanism, which is there to manipulate people - and how it feels like to realise that you as a reader are being manipulated. These people try to create something like significance out of information; and then they realise that they are themselves of no significance for their company."


message 13: by Msmurphybylaw (new)

Msmurphybylaw I do understand where you are coming from.
Ulysses, Ulysses, Ulysses, read it, got it, paw through it occasionally on manic days for lugubrious passages, and on mixed mania days, I've gently torn out a few pages (Joyce won't miss them) and folded them into origami sculptures.

I have a couple of DFW books sitting on the shelf. One, I've read (IJ) and the other I haven't. My brain isn't ready for them yet, so I want them to stay put until I've the mindset or they may be folded into cranes.


message 14: by Paul (last edited Oct 27, 2010 08:50AM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Paul Bryant You could turn it into a humument...

http://humument.com/gallery/index.html


message 15: by Msmurphybylaw (new)

Msmurphybylaw Those are beautiful. I went to a gallery opening this weekend and there were some fantastic ceramic pieces that used book pages in them.
They would make a lovely tribute to both authors as well.


message 16: by Msmurphybylaw (new)

Msmurphybylaw Mason & Dixon is also shelved next to Ulysses but as I am unable to finish it, I can't turn it into art.
Sigh


message 17: by MJ (last edited Apr 01, 2012 02:17AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

MJ Nicholls I'd say most of the positives for Joyce you could also apply to Wallace, but I don't want to open old wounds. Oh heck, yes I do. I haven't excavated Joyce as much as I have Wallace yet, but there are parallels in that both of them constructed escape routes out of their respective literary labyrinths.


message 18: by Paul (last edited Apr 01, 2012 02:49AM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Paul Bryant Having reread Ulysses over the last year there are indeed intentionally difficult/impossible/tedious passages in there all right, and they did make me pull my hair and howl slightly, see my comments on the Eumaeus and Oxen of the Sun chapters. So I can see that the engagement of reader and writer in these extraordinary cases is a whole different order of transaction than that which operates between raymond Chandler and his readers, it could be more like the relationship between Holmes and Moriarty on the Rickenbacker Twelve String Guitar Falls.


message 19: by Ian (last edited Apr 11, 2012 12:19PM) (new) - added it

Ian "Marvin" Graye I'm 70% of the way through IJ now, and at this stage I would say that DFW mightn't offer his characters a way out of the world he describes, but he offers us (his readers and audience) a way out.

Showing us the experience of treading on the hamster wheel seems to be designed to allow us to avoid the experience.


message 20: by Paul (new) - rated it 2 stars

Paul Bryant I'm at my hamster wheel right now (aka work!)


message 21: by Thom (new)

Thom Dunn Paul wrote: "I'm at my hamster wheel right now (aka work!)"

A cubicle slave at his hamster wheel.


message 22: by Paul (new) - rated it 2 stars

Paul Bryant No cubicles here, it's run on the open prison rather than maximum security model.


message 23: by MJ (new) - rated it 5 stars

MJ Nicholls The only thing that annoys me about Foster Wallace is this abbreviation DFW. And by the way, Mr. B, your graphic novels arrived at my domicile today. Thanks! I'll read them soon.


message 24: by Paul (new) - rated it 2 stars

Paul Bryant that was quick - I look forward to your reviews.


message 25: by Ian (new) - added it

Ian "Marvin" Graye MJ wrote: "The only thing that annoys me about Foster Wallace is this abbreviation DFW."

You make me laugh, MJ.

DFW is the Pale King of maxims and initialisms in "IJ".

Professor Murray Jay Siskind has kindly allowed me to publish his seminal work on "Diving Into the Cliche Pool: Maximalism and Initialism in DFW's 'Infinite Jest'".


message 26: by Ben (new)

Ben Winch Good to hear a dissenting voice, Paul. Truth is I just haven't read Foster Wallace yet - something about him never attracted me, seemed suspicious even (or at least the public's response seemed suspicious - too much fawning, too much 'DFW', as if his fans belonged to a club that didn't acknowledge the ignorance of the outside world to that club). Also I generally hate what I might call 'maximalism', though there are exceptions. 'Pynchon lite'?! Christ, that does not sell it either. But I begin to be just a tiny bit curious - he does come across as intelligent, after all. As a sceptic, could you suggest any relatively painless place to start? Even a section of something that stood out from the rest? Thanks for your time.


message 27: by Paul (new) - rated it 2 stars

Paul Bryant I would not wish to recommend where to start with this guy, as I really haven't started myself, but I've been told by fans that the non-fiction is where you should start - Consider the Lobster and A Supposedly Fun thing I'll Never Do Again. I think in one sense DFW is the modern Joyce - he's monumental and offputting but you think you really should have read him by now. His fans will tell you that he's a lot of fun (just as I will tell you Joyce is).


message 28: by Ben (new)

Ben Winch Almost ashamed to say I haven't read Joyce either... almost. Love Beckett though. I have this gene in me, if something is revered by virtually everyone I tend not to be interested, as if I know I'll soak up the influence by osmosis whether I read it or not. But yeah, non-fiction, I got that feeling. He's good in interview, this 'DFW'. Again, thanks for the dissent - if there's one holy cow I've encountered repeatedly on goodreads it's Mr Wallace, followed closely by Mr Nabokov.


message 29: by Jacob (new) - added it

Jacob I'm glad you posted a review comparing DFW to Joyce. I actually just got into an argument with a friend the other day about the similarities between the two writers. My friend insisted a greater connection to Kafka, but I insisted on Joyce. (Granted--I can see his points, but I'm stubborn.) for the most part I agree with you, but I believe that DFW has a greater mind for plot than people give him credit for. Unlike Joyce, Wallace's works are meandering. Yes. But who in post-Cold War society isn't grasping at straws? Wallace challenges art itself. His massive footnotes and endnotes serves a purpose: to point out the fall of high art in exchange for objective information. The author does not expect us to read every inch of the footnotes--just like he does not expect us to read every inch of every tax audit in The Pale King. His unfocused narrators don't dance around the point. They ARE the point. Like Joyce, DFW's work is not plot-based. It roots itself in aesthetics and experimentalism.


message 30: by Paul (last edited Jun 13, 2013 01:56PM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Paul Bryant Ben in the message above is ashamed to say he hasn't read Joyce and I'm the same about Kafka, so I can't comment on the DFW/Kafka thing. What you're describing, the unfocussed narrators being the point, is, I think, the condition called postmodernism, and it does strike me that if Joyce is the poster boy for modernism, you couldn't get a better poster boy for postmodernism than DFW, even, although this may be less than tactful to mention, down to the suicide which seems to be, if you don't prefer the purely chemical explanations, some kind of admission of and rebellion against the angst of postmodernist meaninglessness. A lot of po-mo artists throw their glittering surface displays at the audience and say that that's all there is, surface, and they have perfectly ordinary careers. DFW seemed to be desperate to find points and meaningfulness and full of anguish when each trail went cold. But I really think I ought to read more of his non-fiction before I pontificate any more.


message 31: by Ian (new) - added it

Ian "Marvin" Graye "It’s clear we are in the presence of a buzzword."


Magnus That is remarkably close to my own experience of the book, even down to your final note. It left me feeling like DFW has nothing at all to say, that underneath all his ceaseless language there is nothing but the things he had observed - out of control noticing machine indeed.


message 33: by Paul (new) - rated it 2 stars

Paul Bryant I think that was part of what defeated him in the end.


Magnus Paul wrote: "I think that was part of what defeated him in the end."

Yes, that's the conclusion I'm tempted to draw as well. Googled a bit, and found following quote, in which he reflects on the merits of good literature. In the article it is also made clear that he did not believe his own work lived up to these criteria, and that his style had become a hindrance.

"
The central issue for Wallace remained, as he told McCaffery, how to give “CPR to those elements of what’s human and magical that still live and glow despite the times’ darkness.” He added, “Really good fiction could have as dark a worldview as it wished, but it’d find a way both to depict this world and to illuminate the possibilities for being alive and human in it.”
"
( http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/200... )


message 35: by Gary16 (new)

Gary16 I a p


message 36: by Jordan (new) - added it

Jordan I loved this review/comparison. very insightful and great points, well made.


message 37: by [deleted user] (new)

I don't think DFW's radio was dead. But, that's a small conjectural point. Where is the criticism part? It would seem that a low rating would contain some.


message 38: by Cole (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cole Heideman pretty simple explanation, JJ is modernist and DFW is post modern. I mean, the footnotes and all.of that stuff are meant to create critical distance from the text among other things. they do exactly what they are intended to, you just don't like it (As you admit) , I don't think it's fair to conclude that dfw has nothing to say because of this.


David Hammond I have had it with DFW for the moment several times now, and yet keep coming back.


message 40: by Paul (new) - rated it 2 stars

Paul Bryant yeah, I know. I feel another entanglement with him coming my way too. It will end in tears again.


message 41: by Jack (new) - rated it 3 stars

Jack Ward As much as I marvel at the smartness of DFW's writing, it so often leaves me feeling cold too. I'm tempted to say it can be ostentatious.

This was a stunningly-written review in any case!


message 42: by Paul (new) - rated it 2 stars

Paul Bryant thanks Jack!


message 43: by Paul (new) - rated it 2 stars

Paul Bryant well, I tried IJ and was defeated. This one was DFW's second chance with me and it was …. difficult as you see. But help was at hand. Those DFW fans who acknowledged that he was a tough proposition organised The DFW Reader... a generous big fat boo of excerpts; and, glutton for punishment that I am, I have got that.


message 44: by MiniMario (new)

MiniMario hoi


message 45: by Barbara (new)

Barbara Carder is it possible that DFW, like Stephen King and J.J., exhibited signs of 'hypergraphia' --- Hypergraphia is a behavioral condition characterized by the intense desire to write or draw. Forms of hypergraphia can vary in writing style and content. It is a symptom associated with temporal lobe changes in epilepsy.


message 46: by Paul (new) - rated it 2 stars

Paul Bryant but Alexander Theroux isn't?


message 47: by Paul (new) - rated it 2 stars

Paul Bryant that's right! exactly!


Joshua  Gonsalves Honestly, I really love DFW but can understand your problems/difficulty when it comes to reading his stuff. However, I do disagree with the accusations some make of his writing being kind of "cold" or what-have-you because I actually have found myself super emotionally attached to much of his work in the past, mainly 'Infinite Jest,' which can be an annoying novel to read at times but, in the end, may be the most relatable and emotionally resonant work of literature I have ever read. His characters and the feelings he expresses are so close and meaningful to me, honest to God. I'm not sure if you would enjoy it if you ever finished it, but that's just my take.


message 49: by Paul (new) - rated it 2 stars

Paul Bryant I'm a big fan of a novel which also leaves many people feeling it's all too much to contemplate, that is Ulysses. So I take what you're saying. There are thousands of DFW fans, I know that.


message 50: by Paul (new) - rated it 2 stars

Paul Bryant thanks Marissa!


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