Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Theatre

This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Theatre. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

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Edit this page and add {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PageName}} to the top of the list. Replace "PageName" with the relevant article name, i.e. the one on the existing AFD discussion. Also, indicate the title of the article in the edit summary as it is particularly helpful to add a link to the article in the edit summary. When you save the page, the discussion will automatically appear.
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You can also add and remove other discussions (prod, CfD, TfD etc.) related to Theatre. For the other XfD's, the process is the same as AfD (except {{Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/PageName}} is used for MFD and {{transclude xfd}} for the rest). For PRODs, adding a link with {{prodded}} will suffice.

Further information

For further information see Wikipedia's deletion policy and WP:AfD for general information about Articles for Deletion, including a list of article deletions sorted by day of nomination.

Archived discussions (starting from September 2007) may be found at:

WikiProject Deletion sorting/Theatre/archive

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Theatre

Daniel Sachs

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Fails WP:SIGCOV. Refs are passing mentions, profiles, about us pages and other misc/non-specific coverage. Fails WP:BIO. scope_creep^Talk 11:56, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What is WP:SICOV? Ruccc (talk) 12:38, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ruccc, Scoop creep mean WP:SIGCOV. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 12:50, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Understood! Ruccc (talk) 14:50, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople and Sweden. Shellwood (talk) 12:47, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Fails WP:ANYBIO. Sources from article and WP:BEFORE do not meet the minimum guideline. Could not even find three sources that satisfy GNG. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 12:48, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Could not find enough in-depth coverage from independent, reliable sources to pass WP:GNG.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 14:06, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I've done a quick search in a Swedish media archive and there seems to be plenty of (significant) Swedish newspaper coverage. I'll make time at some point in the coming days to go though the most promising hits and add them to the article (or retract this statement if it turns out that my first glance was mistaken). /Julle (talk) 18:08, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Television, and Theatre. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:11, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

PimComedy Fashion Show

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References are event listings and non-rs entries. Fails WP:SIGCOV. A before virtually nothing. scope_creep^Talk 12:35, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Theatre and New York. Shellwood (talk) 12:48, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Arts, Poetry, Music, Entertainment, Events, and Fashion. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:10, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Renz Nathaniel Cruz

If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is not a majority vote, but instead a discussion among Wikipedia contributors. Wikipedia has policies and guidelines regarding the encyclopedia's content, and consensus (agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes.

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Note: Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected single-purpose accounts: {{subst:spa|username}}; suspected canvassed users: {{subst:canvassed|username}}; accounts blocked for sockpuppetry: {{subst:csm|username}} or {{subst:csp|username}}.

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Unclear if there's enough here for WP:CREATIVE/GNG. Most of the sources have him name-checked as a member of the musical ensemble, but I'm not seeing any in-depth coverage. KH-1 (talk) 03:18, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Bands and musicians, Theatre, and Philippines. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:30, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. This person has barely done any professional work, let alone had a notable career. Strong delete. -- Ssilvers (talk) 05:22, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as he clearly isn't notable. Tavantius (talk) 16:38, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Collapse spate of brand new editors seemingly canvassed to this discussion. Daniel (talk) 09:21, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reconsider deletion. An article from The Varsitarian provides significant coverage of Cruz's role in forming OperaJuan, an emerging youth opera and musical theater group, demonstrating leadership in his field. Cruz is quoted discussing the group's mission, showing he's considered an authority figure. The coverage provides substantive, independent information that establishes Cruz's notability in the field of Philippine music. I have expanded the article with this information. Ixo490 (talk) 03:50, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's the publication of his alma mater. There's one sentence for background and two quotes. It's not really enough.-KH-1 (talk)

Retain. Did some research. Person is active performer. There is much evidence to this. Discography is also legitimate. Tracks are in all streaming platforms. Thompson.walkins (talk) 05:56, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Notability has nothing to do with being an "active performer". You have to do be unusual to be notable, not WP:MILL. You need to stand out so that the media gives you WP:SIGCOV. For example, winning a Tony Award. Also, plenty of Philippine performers get a lot of WP:SIGCOV. See, for example, Lea Salonga or Morissette Amon. -- Ssilvers (talk) 16:04, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We can retain the article. Google recognizes the legitimacy of the artist. Ixo490 (talk) 06:15, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I believe there are compelling reasons to keep the article. As an emerging artist in the Philippine music and theater scene, his role in forming OperaJuan demonstrates leadership and initiative, highlighting his contributions to the local arts community. While he may not have extensive coverage yet, Wikipedia should be open to documenting rising talents, especially those making innovative strides in their fields. The presence of the artist's tracks on major streaming platforms and evidence of active performances suggest a legitimate, ongoing career in the arts, providing a solid foundation for the article that can be expanded as the artist's career progresses. Furthermore, as a young artist working in opera and musical theater in the Philippines, the artist may represent an important voice in the country's evolving performing arts scene, making it valuable to document his work for those researching contemporary Philippine culture and music. Retaining the article allows for future growth; it's not uncommon for articles on emerging artists to start small and develop over time. Additionally, including articles on up-and-coming artists from various countries enriches Wikipedia's content diversity, offering a more comprehensive view of global arts and culture. Given these points, I suggest keeping the article with appropriate sourcing and a neutral tone while monitoring for additional notable achievements or coverage that can further establish the artist's relevance. Editlife1tr (talk) 06:29, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:SIGCOV and the socks chiming in on this discussion aren't helping their cause. APK hi :-) (talk) 06:31, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Collapse spate of brand new editors seemingly canvassed to this discussion. Daniel (talk) 09:21, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Editors are super obsessed with deleting articles of actual living professionals. Get a life. Keep the article. Loewemathers (talk) 06:37, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Googled the person and he is in fact a singer from the Philippines. Everything seems true and correct. I don't see any false or misleading information nor form of self-promotion. TOOLINK (talk) 06:43, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I wonder how the people recommending deletion can verify the notability of any theater or opera artist from the Philippines when none of them are from the country. Not to mention, there's no existing database on Philippine theater and opera artists. This is a good contribution to the category. Thompson.walkins (talk) 06:51, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Second this. These people are bored to death. This could help expand the list of local artists from Philippines. I don't see enough information on them. Ixo490 (talk) 06:55, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Opera is a niche area of performing arts. Looks like their country doesn't have reliable information regarding this field. However, this online database of classical musicians recognizes him. TOOLINK (talk) 07:02, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Struck duplicate !vote from Thompson.walkins. DMacks (talk) 14:05, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Keep.~~ Make Wikipedia great again! Please stop deleting valuable, truthful information. Go and look for other pages to delete. There's real vandalism and then there are people hellbent on eliminating legitimate entries. TOOLINK (talk) 06:59, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Striking duplicate vote. You can only cast one bolded "vote". Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:07, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To all of the new editors to Wikipedia, first "Welcome!" Secondly, Wikipedia determines whether or not an article should be Kept or Deleted not based on a vote count but based on whether or not notability can be established by reliable, independent secondary sources. They can't be "passing mentions" but provide SIGCOV (significant coverage). So, your pleas to save this article or accusations against other editors or Wikipedia won't have much impact but if you could find additional sources from mainstream new sources (not blogs or social media) could help establish notability and influence whether or not this article is Kept or not. Wikipedia is governed not by editors' opinions but by policies and guidelines and this is how we determine what articles should be Kept and which ones should be Deleted. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:12, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Collapse spate of brand new editors seemingly canvassed to this discussion. Daniel (talk) 09:21, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
~~Keep.~~ Even A.I. recognizes the person. Hate to admit it, but I trust Artificial Intelligence more than these notorious editors. Loewemathers (talk) 07:12, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply] What is that supposed to mean? Geschichte (talk) 08:55, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply] Struck duplicate !vote from Loewemathers. DMacks (talk) 14:05, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Account creation dates: User:Ixo490: 5 hours ago, User:Thompson.walkins: 3 hours ago, User:Editlife1tr: 3 hours ago, User:Loewemathers: 2 hours ago, User:TOOLINK: 2 hours ago. Northern Moonlight 09:00, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As an uninvolved administrator, I have taken actions (including page protection and collapsing seemingly-canvassed participation from brand new editors), to restore order and remove disruption from this debate. Daniel (talk) 09:22, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Certainly seems like a talented artist who could merit an article at some point, but right now, the notability just isn't there. To anyone canvassed to come here: deletion isn't a punishment, it's just that Wikipedia's purpose is to recognize notability, not help create it. CoffeeCrumbs (talk) 13:15, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I wish him well, but (agreeing with CoffeeCrumbs) WP:TOOSOON. Narky Blert (talk) 14:29, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - first, and most importantly, notability is not established. Secondly, the article was written by an obvious WP:SPA who created the article in their own sandbox two hours after opening their account. Thirdly, the number of other SPAs flooding this discussion with pwersonal attacks and assumptions of bad faith doesn't inspire confidence. If the article subject was truly notable there'd be no need for all that. It seems to me the subject or their friends or fans are involved in this. - The literary leader of the age ✉ 23:15, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - In agreement with all the real voters above. Upon inspection, I think his OperaJuan operation might be closer to notability because they have received some media notice in their country. But since this article is about Mr. R.N. Cruz, he must achieve notability via reliable media coverage, and so far he's only in self-promotional mode. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 13:55, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Helen Donaldson

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Tagged for BLP sourcing issues since 2018. Not clear that the subject passes WP:GNG. 4meter4 (talk) 15:36, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Women, Theatre, and Australia. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:05, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:MUSICBIO. Only the first Google news hit seems decent, but otherwise seems coverage mainly for namesakes. LibStar (talk) 23:44, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Satisfies WP:NACTOR with her stage roles [1], specifically: 1. touring with The Pirates of Penzance as Mabel [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] (multiple reviews at each of these stops). A recording of one of the shows was also released [7], the soundtrack of it won a 1995 ARIA Award. 2. touring with The Mikado as Yum Yum [8] [9]. 3. touring with H.M.S. Pinafore as Josephine [10] (not just the highlighted section) [11] [12] (recording also released). 4. touring with A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Forum as Philia [13] [14] "Forum Is Light Musical Theatre At Its Very Best", The Canberra Times, 2 April 1999 - Vincent, Jeremy (4 January 1999), "Revival revels in farce, not class", The Australian. She is the prime focus of articles Brown, Phil (23 July 2008), "Back to the start", Brisbane News and Kelly, Patricia (26 June 2004), "Family puts a song in Helen's well-travelled heart", Courier Mail. duffbeerforme (talk) 12:28, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Would you please cite the sources (and add the missing noteworthy facts) in the article itself? -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:27, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Duffbeerforme. -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:28, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 20:45, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Verkine Karakashian

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Fails WP:SIGCOV. 4meter4 (talk) 16:45, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Women, Theatre, Armenia, Greece, and Turkey. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 18:50, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. No refs. If any coverage of this person ever surfaces, it would take exactly 10 minutes to write a better article. -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:35, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: There is a book reference in the article. I would suggest to keep the article, unless someone actually provided an assessment of its coverage. TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 20:14, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@TheJoyfulTentmaker That is not a valid policy based keep vote. WP:SIGCOV requires multiple sources with independent significant coverage, which we generally interpret at AFD is a minimum of three sources. One book source, no matter how in-depth does not meet our notability guidelines.4meter4 (talk) 20:39, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I kindly disagree, a single book may indicate existence of more sources. Even without references, deletion nominators are expected to do a good faith WP:BEFORE: to check Google, Google Books, Google Scholar, and Wikipedia Library if possible. AfD is not a place to urge people to fix unreferenced articles. Nomination must come only after there are good indicators that the subject is not notable, regardless of the state of the article; as stated in WP:NEXIST. Sorry for repeating these in multiple nominations of yours, but there are not enough people watching these nominations about niche topics like this one, and I honestly believe it will be a loss for the encyclopedia if these are prematurely deleted. TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 21:40, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@CeeGee I think you created the article, pinging just in case you were not notified. TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 21:53, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We need other sources, suggesting that they exist isn't helpful Oaktree b (talk) 23:53, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@TheJoyfulTentmaker You seem to be misinterpreting policy language. WP:SIGCOV requires multiple sources as a non-negotiable criteria for all wikipedia articles. It's a must and its policy. Period. WP:NEXIST requires people voting to keep articles to produce multiple sources at the time of making a keep argument at an AFD. Asserting there are sources through guesswork is not following NEXIST; nor is arguing for keep based on a book you personally have not seen. Providing sources with url links or the names, publication dates, and pages of specific sources that you personally have looked at is following NEXIST. As for me, I looked at several standard opera reference works, including a Russian language music encyclopedia and found nothing on this person. My attempt at BEFORE may not be perfect but please WP:AGF. Best.4meter4 (talk) 00:52, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest you re-read WP:SIGCOV because it doesn't say what you think it does. The immediate subsection doesn't mention the number of sources but a bit further it says "Sources" should be secondary sources, as those provide the most objective evidence of notability. There is no fixed number of sources required since sources vary in quality and depth of coverage, but multiple sources are generally expected. Multiple sources are not a "must" and the requirement is not "policy" (our notability documents relate to guidance rather than policy). Thincat (talk) 10:49, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Well, this source mentions this person [15], but that's all I can find. I don't think we have enough sourcing. Oaktree b (talk) 23:56, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Oaktree b Just a note: during the period she was active, The Ottoman Empire used the Arabic writing system. So search is not trivial. Even modern sources include various different spellings of her name. Trying the modern Turkish spelling Verkine Karakaşyan, I can easily find at least one journal paper. TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 00:11, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I can only see a short segment from the Google Books preview, but the book you linked might have a significant coverage (there are three search hits in separate places of the book). Here is the the second one, page 67: "... Verkine Karakashian read his poem “Freedom” and moved the audience so deeply that the ceremony was repeated for several nights in a row. After this incident, gradually more young girls showed the courage to go onstage and break the ...". Seems there is more before and after this passage, and this itself probably has a citation in the book; so if anyone has access to this book it would be really helpful if you could check. Separately, I added two more sources to the article and found the ISBN number of the book, referenced by CeeGee, who created the article. TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 02:52, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: The Armenian wiki has some links, but I'm not in a position to say if they're RS or not. Oaktree b (talk) 00:19, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Clearly not notable Pallikari ap' ta Sfakia 17:20, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 20:22, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The sourcing is improved, now we have 6 references (one thanks to @Oaktree b's Armenian Wikipedia pointer), and hopefully notability concerns are now reduced. Also, I'm curious about the opinions @Basak and @Buidhe, who are experienced editors with contributions related to Ottoman Armenians on the English or the Turkish Wikipedia. TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 01:25, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Covered by several additional Turkish sources [16][17] Additional Armenian sources [18][19] The main ref in the Armenian article is the Armenian Soviet Encyclopedia. Whether there were citations at the time of the nomination is irrelevant to AfD. Aintabli (talk) 03:31, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I see that new relevant sources were added since the beginning of this discussion, therefore to me it is clear that the article should be kept. Of course, it’s possible to add more sources and improve the article. For example here, it’is possible to learn what were the important roles she played in her years at Güllü Agop Company and in Benliyan Operet Company: Women in Ottoman theater life — Preceding unsigned comment added by Basak (talk • contribs) 06:28, 24 September 2024 (UTC) --Basak (talk) 06:38, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 21:02, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Torontow

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Fails WP:NACTOR. Bit-part actor. scope_creep^Talk 14:13, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers and Canada. Shellwood (talk) 14:14, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Television, and Theatre. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 17:20, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. He has played the title character in Sweeney Todd, among other major characters and has been nominated for Dora Awards both as a leading actor and a director. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:57, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: seems notable enough to me, given his stage career and existing sources. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 10:35, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Commment. When I was patrolling this page, I couldn't find any pieces on him — nothing close to WP:SIGCOV — in a quality British national WP:RS, and zero outside of the UK. As a west-end actor, he is going to get mentions in the media from shows, but I can't see that the media find him particularly notable as a standalone subject? thanks. Aszx5000 (talk) 10:44, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I couldn't find either anything in previews nor any mention of him in the play reviews. It a complete mystery to me how they can jump to a keep !vote almost immediately without presenting any evidence per WP:THREE. I did a search using reliable sources search which covers the major Canadian newspapers and not a thing came up, on him. There is reviews of the plays. You would think there would be some mention outwith passing mentions. scope_creep^Talk 14:25, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And I think he is 46, so he is well advanced in his career. Aszx5000 (talk) 15:38, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think you have hit on a crucial point there. I need to remember that for the future. Almost middle-aged and no reviews. Good point. scope_creep^Talk 15:42, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: per @Ssilvers. Subject appeared in various plays have sources which support them. Thewikizoomer (talk) 16:20, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Thewikizoomer: What sources exactly. You seem to flit from Afd to Afd without providing any evidence for you keep !votes. WP:THREE is considered best practice for proving the person is notable. Do you have any reference that prove this person is notable? scope_creep^Talk 16:49, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: keep !votes would benefit from specifying which sources establish Notability here.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 17:38, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Other than the CBC article about the one-man show, rest are simply confirmation of various performances... I don't consider the award terribly notable. Perhaps the Dora, rest are rather small/non-notable. I don't find additional coverage of this individual. Oaktree b (talk) 20:46, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Per my comments above, has zero WP:SIGCOV on him in any quality British RS (and nothing internationally). Is 46, so is well advanced in their career with no sign of their notability improving. Aszx5000 (talk) 15:54, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. To add to the comments above, his own website says he "is arguably most “famous” for helping remind you to switch modes on your phone in the Air Canada in-flight safety video." This is not a notable person. -- asilvering (talk) 23:58, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: notable existing sources. 181.197.42.215 (talk) 02:16, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This WP:SPA editor has made few edits to Wikipedia. scope_creep^Talk 09:49, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 11:52, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Apart from the CBC story, this article lacks WP:SIGCOV in reliable national sources. The subject fails WP:GNG. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DesiMoore (talk • contribs) 15:52, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep a quick BEFORE finds an in-depth significant media coverage - Ottawa Citizen 2004 (ProQuest 240730536; GNG met with other articles already mentioned. . A lot of other material (224 hits in Proquest!). Nfitz (talk) 01:30, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]