The Old Curiosity Club discussion

Just in case there are still problems, I opened the first sub-thread.

All right, let's get started. I have to say I’m feeling pretty daunted about filling such big shoes, and I may set things up a little differently (with not as comprehensive a summary of the book, for instance), but hopefully it will still be enough to get discussion going.

Never having read Anne Brontë before, I am very much enjoying having little sense of what to expect here, at least as compared to reading a new Dickens novel. This extends to me not noticing when I set up the reading schedule that the book doesn’t in fact start with Chapter 1, but with a letter to J. Halford, Esq. So it looks like we have a frame narrative going here: our narrator is telling this story to his friend Halford. It’s a story about “certain circumstances connected with the most important event of my life—previous to my acquaintance with Jack Halford at least,” and the narrator is telling it in an effort to match a story Halford told him, afterwards requesting that the narrator return a story equally confidential. So to start out, here are a few things we know:

--this is a story that has a huge effect on the narrator: the narrator isn’t going to be a mere bystander here.

--it’s a story very much in the narrator’s past: his intimate friend knows nothing of it. We know it affected the narrator, but how lasting can that effect be if it’s so unknown?

--the narrator is telling the story during a break when “the family are absent on a visit, [and] I am alone in my library”—which suggests that the narrator becomes a family man before telling this story. It’s unclear whether or not the story will lead up to his current domestic circumstances.

Anything else you notice being set up by this frame narrative? Also, any thoughts on this (to me) odd exchange of intimacies?

Chapter 1
Here we meet the narrator and his family, and are told that a single lady (!!!) had rented nearby and largely ruined Wildfell Hall. The neighborhood is immediately convinced that this new visitor needs A) lots of visits from people asking questions about her past, which she resists answering, and B) advice from these people who know nothing about her. Hmm.

There’s an interesting opposition set up between the narrator’s deceased father, who advised him to be happy as a farmer, and his ambitious mother, who encourages him in his desire for “higher aims.” Right now he’s farming as his father asked, but does not seem to have convinced himself this is a sufficient use of his talents. The ambitious mother is still around, as well as a sister who—am I reading this right?—may eventually have married Halford, to whom this story is being told: “Nothing told me then, that she, a few years hence, would be the wife of one—entirely unknown to me as yet, but destined hereafter to become a closer friend than even herself.” Halford, if this friend is Halford, is also described as more intimate a friend than the narrator’s brother, who gets my vote in this chapter as “most likely to cause trouble for everyone else.” What do you think?

Lots of good and varied female characters in this chapter! My favorite description so far:

[Eliza’s] sister, Mary, was several years older, several inches taller, and of a larger, coarser build—a plain, quiet, sensible girl, who had patiently nursed their mother, through her last long, tedious illness, and been the housekeeper, and family drudge, from thence to the present time. She was trusted and valued by her father, loved and courted by all dogs, cats, children, and poor people, and slighted and neglected by everybody else.

So acid, Anne!

I will let you all tell me what you think of Eliza Millward, who seems to be the narrator’s chief prospective love interest, as designated by his sister and by the amount of page-space he gives her.

Chapter 2
Our narrator (wait! He has a name! Gilbert Markham)—Gilbert now goes wandering off to meet the mysterious single female newcomer himself, and rescues her son when he gets stuck suspended in a tree. When our newcomer (who also has a name! Mrs. Graham)—when Mrs. Graham comes upon Gilbert and her rescued child, she initially thinks Gilbert is kidnapping her son.

How normal is this, folks? I think we’re supposed to read it as very alarmist of Mrs. Graham, and possibly indicating a traumatic past. But I’m not sure how I would feel finding my child in the arms of a strange man in the middle of nowhere? It’s not like she observes the rescue first.

Anyway, Gilbert is so put off by the ingratitude of his reception that he flees “to solace my ruffled temper with the company and conversation of Eliza Millward.” Hmm. Thoughts?

Chapter 3
Mrs. Graham continues to shock! She visits the Markham family and rejects Mrs. Markham’s contention that she is too closely attached to her son: “Mrs. Markham, I beg you will not say such things in his presence, at least. I trust my son will never be ashamed to love his mother!” Okay, Mrs. Graham, but I don’t think that was Mrs. Markham’s point. But on the other hand, Mrs. Markham seems to be carrying out the town imperative of giving advice to this person they know nothing about, advice she has not requested. I don’t know whose side to take. Maybe neither?

There’s a debate on how to raise a child so the child won’t take to vice. Mrs. Markham, maybe look at your own household and your second son before you offer your superior wisdom to Mrs. Graham.

Another hint of past trauma! Mrs. Graham believes she should “prepare for the worst,” and expect her son “will be like his—like the rest of mankind, unless I take care to prevent it?” I think we can guess she probably had something more specific than “the rest of mankind” in mind when she started that sentence.

I don’t know, this is shaping up as something of a soap opera, but I am up for that. In keeping with soap opera expectations, Gilbert has already begun to describe Mrs. Graham as “my fair antagonist.” I don’t think Eliza Millward has a chance, but I guess we’ll see.

Well, I'm completely befuddled.

First, great job opening the discussion, Julie. Lots to whet our appetites here. Especially, for me, the fact that my book starts with chapter one, and I was completely confused by the opening to which you referred, which is not included in my copy. What on Earth? I'm reading an Oxford University Press edition from 1959.

So, your opening was illuminating. A lot of foreshadowing that I hadn't been privy to. I wonder how everyone else's copy begins?

I find Fergus, the brother, a loveable imp, along the lines of Tristan Farnon in the James Herriot books (which everyone should read!). I wonder why he's so determined to join the military. Is there a story there, or is that just "who he is"? Whatever his role is going forward, he promises to make things entertaining.

As for mother Markham... she and I are going to have a challenging relationship (as she surely does with everyone she encounters). Holy moley. I don't even give that much parenting advice to my own daughter, let alone a new acquaintance. What an insufferable busy body.

Julie, I think you're exactly right that Mrs. Graham has had some troublesome men in her past. An alcoholic, perhaps? She doesn't seem to have a very good opinion of the male sex. I found the debate between she and Gilbert quite enjoyable. Let's hope there will be more verbal sparring between them.

Whoever Halford is, he doesn't know Eliza Millward, which tells us that, however smitten Gilbert may be with her and her bewitching eyes, he will not end up with her. Which gives this romantic hope that Gilbert will eventually thaw out the icy Mrs. Graham, and give her son a positive male role model. He and little Arthur already seem to have bonded.

My favorite bit so far? "Miss Millward never opened her lips, except occasionally to correct some random assertion or exaggerated expression of her sister's, and once to ask her to pick up the ball of cotton, that had rolled under the table. I did this myself, however, as in duty bound. 'Thank you, Mr. Markham,' said she, as I presented it to her. 'I would have picked it up myself; only I did not want to disturb the cat.'"

How very odd! The opening letter isn't in the Project Gutenberg edition either, but here's a version that has it: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Te....

That is a great bit about the cotton-chasing and the cat. I have been thinking Miss Millward will be a very minor character, but so far I hope I am wrong because I like everything attributed to her.

Julie wrote: "How very odd! The opening letter isn't in the Project Gutenberg edition either, but here's a version that has it: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Te......"

Julie

Thanks for the link. My book did not have it. I need to read it and then reread the first 3 chapters to reset myself.

Julie wrote: "All right, let's get started. I have to say I’m feeling pretty daunted about filling such big shoes, and I may set things up a little differently (with not as comprehensive a summary of the book, f..."

We are certainly presented with two different personalities. There seems to be an emphasis on the past here.We are told that this story will be “an old world story” and its telling will come from a “faded journal” as well as letters, papers and memory. The epistolary novel format will be of interest. The story will evolve in segments that will be braided together by Markham. By mentioning the written documentation it leads the reader to have more faith in the first person narrative. We shall see,

Julie wrote: "Chapter 1
Here we meet the narrator and his family, and are told that a single lady (!!!) had rented nearby and largely ruined Wildfell Hall. The neighborhood is immediately convinced that this new..."

First, yes. I see Fergus as a person who will add a different slightly jaundiced perception to the novel. Also, there is, to my thinking at least, a rather rigid writing style in the early chapters.

I picked up touches of the Gothic in the first chapters. Wildfell Hall. Even the name suggests a touch of deep uncontrolled energy. Its description leans towards a place that has seen better, more attentive days, and Mrs Graham is described as being pale with raven-dark hair. And the wall. Did anyone else see any further meaning or metaphor in the young boy trying to climb over the Hall’s outer wall only to fall into Gilbert Markham’s arms?

Loved the description of Markham’s mother. It borders on comedic. Was it meant to be so?

I agree with you Julie and Mary Lou. There is some serious man issues in Mrs Graham’s past. More mystery for us to unravel. It seems that Gilbert has some feelings for Eliza Millward. To date, Eliza is presented only in calm domestic indoor settings while Mrs Graham is closely tied to the outdoors; as Eliza seems to be compliant to the norms and mores of the time Mrs Graham is willing to speak her mind and defend her choices of life and her child to both all females and Graham. Hmmmm. Domestic versus the seemingly untamed. Wildfell Hall versus a clergy’s home.

Peter wrote: "Domestic versus the seemingly untamed. Wildfell Hall versus a clergy’s home."

I am thinking in addition to the gothic element to this opposition, maybe parallels Gilbert's life-question about should he stay with the familiar or shoot for more?

But I don't want to take this too far, since I also kind of think the "shoot for more" option is tainted because it's described as the position of his ambitious mother as opposed to his salt-of-the-earth father.

(Jane Wilson in Chapter 1 is also described as ambitious, uninterested in "suitors in her own rank of life" and aiming for a gentleman. Ambition seems to be a pretty strong theme in this first chapter.)

Julie wrote: "Peter wrote: "Domestic versus the seemingly untamed. Wildfell Hall versus a clergy’s home."

I am thinking in addition to the gothic element to this opposition, maybe parallels Gilbert's life-quest..."

Yes.

Ambition does seem to be a clear issue that is poking up. Ambition comes in many shapes and colours. It could well turn out to be a main motivation for the events yet to unfold in our characters’ lives. Is it me or did we get a rather broad range of character types and personalities in the first three chapters? Bronte has given herself lots of players to both push and pull one another in the future.

Peter wrote: "Bronte has given herself lots of players to both push and pull one another in the future."

Yes, and I got the sense everyone has a role to play. Why waste ink on a character sketch if you're not going to use it?