Bodice Ripper Readers Anonymous discussion

I was just looking at the new releases on Amazon and saw Captive Rose by Olivia Wheeler. Anyway, Amazon is advertising it as 'Bodice Ripper Romance'. Seems fishy to me, or maybe I've just been disappointed too often. For $3.99, not sure if I want to be the first to review.

So, I guess that's a really lame way of saying, why doesn't someone else buy it and confirm/deny the bodice rippery-ness of it for us (me)? *please* :P

Lol, I'll probably end up giving in to my curiosity again and being disappointed again. You think I'd learn.

ETA - The plot thickens, the same author has published 2 others in the past 2 days that are boldly being advertised as 'Bodice Ripper Romance'. Innocent Pawn & Steel Heart. I feel myself weakening. Damn curiosity.

KatieV, I have not had your experience of this disappointment yet bec I have not "tried" to buy any yet (I'm new here). However, after inciting possible condemnation in the Georgette Heyer group for liking a hero of a book written in the 1930s who "threatened" to ravish the heroine and standing virtually alone in my views, I wonder in these PC times that anything would be marketed as a Bodice ripper.

If people are outraged over a threat of rape where no sex would ever take place, I'm suspicious of this marketing strategy. Or maybe it really is a BR, and the publisher feels that they have no alternative but to court people who like this, yet while warning the people who don't!

Hi KatieV, I just looked at the neg reviews on AMZN. Someone complains that the h/H's first time together is "nothing short of rape." I guess this is really a bodice ripper complete with the exotic location. The heroine is a doctor and lives among the infidels in Damascus with her infidel doctor stepfather. The pos rev I read described what I think is an epic-type book. I'm going to buy this. It looks like my kinda book! Thanks for calling my attention to it. This will be my first or second BR purchase. I've read some, but I have only purchased one that "might" be a BR. This one definitely is.

I would not have been able to determine this was BR from the positive rev, but once I read the outrage in the neg rev over what we BR lovers call "forced seduction," I new this was for me! Kudos to the publisher for owning the identity of this book as a BR. However, since you mention that you have been burned by buying what was not a BR, I've been warned to watch out! Caveat Emptor!

Uh oh, the Captive Rose book that I found on AMZN was by Miriam Minger and not by Wheeler! I made a mistake here , but thanks for leading me to this book. It looks awesome, even if it was not the one you were talking about.

Andrea IS Catsos Person wrote: "Uh oh, the Captive Rose book that I found on AMZN was by Miriam Minger and not by Wheeler! I made a mistake here , but thanks for leading me to this book. It looks awesome, even if it was not the o..."

Lol, not a problem. I saw that one too and thought it sounded promising. Negative reviews are definitely the way to sniff out a BR ;)

Its good to know I was not crazy for trying to ident a BR that way ;)! This Book is a part of a trilogy called "Captive Brides" (by M.Minger). I just bought the kindle box set of 3 books this based on the promising Captive Rose info and neg review. I am looking forward to reading these.

Andrea IS Catsos Person wrote: "Hi KatieV, I just looked at the neg reviews on AMZN. Someone complains that the h/H's first time together is "nothing short of rape." I guess this is really a bodice ripper complete with the exotic..."

Andrea, let me know what you think of this one. If it's a good BR, I'll read it for my new Best List.

By the way, on my Bodice Ripper best list (http://reganromancereview.blogspot.co...), there's at least one new BR: Winter's Heat by Denise Domning.

I certainly will let you know Regan :-).

Regan wrote: "By the way, on my Bodice Ripper best list (http://reganromancereview.blogspot.co...), there's at least one new BR: Winter's Heat by Denise Domning."

I guess 'new' is as up for interpretation as the term bodice ripper. I realize the heyday was 70-80's, but there were still some trickling through in the 90s. Winter's Heat was published in 1996, so it was definitely on the tail end of the BR movement and is on my tbr list. I suppose I consider 'new' anything published this century, especially in the past decade.

BTW: The 'Captive Rose' Andrea is referring to is not the one that triggered the thread. She, quite understandably, mixed it up with the 1991 Miriam Minger novel of the same title. The novel I'm wondering about was written by Olivia Wheeler and literally released yesterday. Plus she has 2 more released on the 2/13/14. All of these books have "Bodice Ripper Romance" next to the title on Amazon.

Guess I'll take one for the team and read one of these supposed bodice rippers. But, based on the descriptions, Steel Heart appeals to me most. I'll buy that one and will let the group know my verdict on it's worthiness for the title ;)

Andrea - I am looking forward to your opinion on the Minger book. I have some of her Kindle freebies in my tbr pile, but so far haven't made it to them as of yet. I'll be dead before I finish that list :P I often think of the classic Twilight Zone ep where the guy just wants rid of everyone/everything so he can have time to read. He gets his wish, but then breaks his glasses. Poor guy. That would be me.

I'll report back about the Minger Captive Rose when I read!

Just thought I'd check back in re: the new 'Bodice Ripper Romances' recently published by Olivia Wheeler. I actually read Steel Heart rather than Captive Rose because the book desc appealed to me more.

The good news is that it did have some BR elements (forced seduction scene). But it also had some failings IMHO. It's an indy, so the editing was not great and it was uneven at times. Plus, nowhere near as long and epic as a BR should be. If you're interested, click the link for the book and you can see my review.

*sighs* I want to encourage new writing in the BR genre, but this one does need some work.

In addition to encouraging new book to be published in the BR genre, writers should be encouraged to bypass these commercial publishers as well that have such an awful effect on a writer's work. I am going to read your review, and I might just order one of Olivia Wheeler's titles on principle.

Perhaps the reason why Wheeler's new books are boldly being ident as a BR on AMZN IS bec it is an indie? I wonder if a PC large commercial publisher would let BR elements remain in an author 's draft of HR novel? Let alone marketing as a BR? Perhaps these larger publishers don't to want to receive complaints from the PC HR reader crowd?

Andrea IS Catsos Person wrote: "Perhaps the reason why Wheeler's new books are boldly being ident as a BR on AMZN IS bec it is an indie? I wonder if a PC large commercial publisher would let BR elements remain in an author 's dra..."

I think the mainstream publishers likely do discourage BR elements due to complaints. However, money is money and if they realize this is something readers want, I would think they'd start accepting them again. I do think that the author should have put a content warning re: forced seduction, attempted rape into her summary as I've seen a lot of erotica writers doing. This would save them lots of trouble with people buying and then leaving ranting 1 star reviews and would inform others this may just be something they want to read ;)

That warning idea is a good one. You are right about it saving people who don't want rapes and forced seductions. A warning could head off angry one star reviews. I had to read a neg rev to determine that Minger's Captive Rose was a BR. That reader most likely would not have read the book if they had had a warning about potential controversial elements.

Andrea IS Catsos Person wrote: "That warning idea is a good one. You are right about it saving people who don't want rapes and forced seductions. A warning could head off angry one star reviews. I had to read a neg rev to determi..."

The warning stuff comes from my *ducks head* experience as a fan fiction writer. You quickly learn that you'll get in lots of trouble if you don't warn about things that could trigger readers who may have had experiences in life that would make reading about certain subjects extremely upsetting. I certainly wouldn't want to think anything I'd written would cause someone severe emotional distress. Plus, it's very informative and helps readers id stuff they are interested in. I think professional authors should do it more often.

Suddenly all of this author's books have disappeared from Amazon. They were published just last week and now *poof* nowhere to be found on the site. I'm probably just being paranoid, but as the only person who reviewed I feel guilty, like I've shattered the author with my 3 star lukewarm review and she took her toys and went home (not sure that's even possible).

Anyway, had to clear my guilty conscious by admitting that I am possibly an evil, dream squashing, poopy head meanie.

How bizarre! How mysterious!

I wouldn't feel guilty nor think it's your review that had her books removed Katie. If it is, then it's pretty sad if the author cant accept a persons thoughts/feelings on what they read. As an author exposed to the world she should expect the good the bad and the ugly and brush it off. It maybe that she removed them for another reason and I wouldn't lose sleep over it :)

Sandi *~The Pirate Wench~* wrote: "I wouldn't feel guilty nor think it's your review that had her books removed Katie. If it is, then it's pretty sad if the author cant accept a persons thoughts/feelings on what they read. As an aut..."

Thanks :) I'm sure I'm just being paranoid. Maybe she pulled them to do a rewrite. The one I read did have some potential and I'd certainly like to see some new writers in the BR genre.

I was going to try one of he titles. I hope they come back. I was curious to read a BR written in these times.

KatieV wrote: "Suddenly all of this author's books have disappeared from Amazon. They were published just last week and now *poof* nowhere to be found on the site. I'm probably just being paranoid, but as the on..."

Hi KatieV,

Don't worry too much about it, your review may or may not have had anything to do with it, but most likely the author decided to tweak somethings about her books before putting them up again.

Although I can understand your worry. I was the first person to read Sweet Savagery which was subtitled an "A Bodice Ripper Romance." With that that title, I bought it immediately...and was so disappointed! It was an erotic BDSM historical with kidnapping, whippings and incest, but very little plot. The thing that makes a bodice ripper to me, is not so much the sex, but the vast scope of the story and the emotional power struggle between the h & H.

I was the first person to rate it and gave 1 star. I felt awful about it, because it was the author's only book, so despite hating it, I did not leave a review. Others have now rated on Goodreads and Amazon, and the reviews are mixed, so now I don't feel that bad. The author also redid the cover on Amazon and removed "A Bodice Ripper Romance" from the title.

Andrea IS Catsos Person wrote: "I was going to try one of he titles. I hope they come back. I was curious to read a BR written in these times."

I've read a couple of "modern" bodice rippers:

Anna Campbell's Claiming the Courtesan was an modern regency attempt at the bodice ripper style, with a hero who relentlessly pursues the heroine, kidnaps her, force-seduces her, whatever, but I did not like it because of the emo, crybaby hero and the endless navel gazing and pages and pages of inner monologue. For me, a proper bodice ripper has a good balance of action, sex and philosophic musings about the male-female relationship.

Then there's A Viking's Love by Karolyn Cairns, which is undoubtedly a bodice ripper. But I had mixed feeling about this one, as the author had the right idea, but fell flat on the execution. I think a good editor would have made the book work.

You can read my review here:
A Viking's Love

Then there's Phoenix Sullivan's Spoil of War, which seemed more of a historical-romance-fantasy-fiction mix than a bodice ripper. The heroine gets raped multiple times, but never by the hero. I disliked the hero because...(view spoiler)[ he is supposedly a bad-ass warrior king who kidnaps the heroine, claims her as his own, and then leaves her under the protection of one of his men. The man rapes the virgin heroine, and what the hero do? Does this barbaric alpha kill the man who would dare defy his king? No, he banishes him instead, thus setting the stage for what a wimp he truly is. (hide spoiler)].

If anyone finds an entertaining, contemporary-written bodice ripper, I'd love to know!

Wendy, Lady Evelyn Quince wrote: "The thing that makes a bodice ripper to me, is not so much the sex, but the vast scope of the story and the emotional power struggle between the h & H."

Exactly, it's not all about the sex, but the sex often plays a large part in the emotional power struggle. Some of my favorite BRs aren't even very explicit. Erotica does not necessarily equal a BR even if it contains elements of a BR. In the case of the book I read, it was the scope that was missing. She tried to condense what had the potential for a great, angsty story into a month's time and around 200 pages. I hope she is redoing the books, maybe she'll add some more meat to them.

I do hate the idea of bashing on a new author though. I tried to be constructive... but I am a smartass. I can't help it.

Wendy, Lady Evelyn Quince wrote: "Andrea IS Catsos Person wrote: "I was going to try one of he titles. I hope they come back. I was curious to read a BR written in these times."

I've read a couple of "modern" bodice rippers:

Anna..."

I've avoided Claiming the Courtesan for the exact reason you state. So many of the reviews have led me to believe I'm dealing with a weak, crybaby hero. To me a BR HAS to have a strong alpha. I'm not saying he can't have emotional scars, feelings, etc. I don't want an unfeeling, unthinking brute. It just sounds like this guy goes too far to the other extreme. No thank you.

I will definitely check out your review on the viking novel.

KatieV wrote: "Exactly, it's not all about the sex, but the sex often plays a large part in the emotional power struggle. Some of my favorite BRs aren't even very explicit. Erotica does not necessarily equal a BR even if it contains elements of a BR.."

Completely agree! And I think that's why "Sweet Savagery" failed for me, because while it had the requisite kidnapping, forced seduction, etc, it had no "grand scope".

One of the more controversial bodice ripper series, the Purity books, beginning with Purity's Passion, had a lot of craziness in it, but the sex was very euphemistic and the story spanned years (although the hero was a bit of a non-entity).

Like I said, it's a precarious balance, and the true bodice ripper greats knew how to do it just right!

Someone got their panties in a bunch over the Minger Captive Rose?? O__o The only thing I remember about that one is how tame it was.

Karla (Mossy Love Grotto) wrote: "Someone got their panties in a bunch over the Minger Captive Rose?? O__o The only thing I remember about that one is how tame it was."

Yup, that was just a typical early 90's romance; hardly a bodice ripper. The most controversial thing I recall was that the heroine (who was raised in her father's harem,) pleasuring herself at the thought of being with her betrothed, who is not the hero.

And there wasn't any true cruelty between the h&H. It was a rather mild book, IMO.

I've given up trying to judge if something is a ripper or not based on reviews by people I don't know (and even then, sometimes I'd rather just read it for myself and decide).

When Harlequins are referred to as rippers*, yeah...invalid opinion is invalid. -__- The Oversensitive Brigade should come with shiny badges on their avatars, as a warning.

*ETA: And we're not talking Charlotte Lamb HPs, here, but ANY Harlequin.

Considering this book was published in the 90s, hardly an occasion to break out the smelling salts. XD

I don't like the idea about warnings on books. How would I ever find my favorites without all the angry one star reviews??? (just kidding folks...sorta >;D)

Haha..all of these comments ***** MAh bishes. :D

Anyone who thinks they can speak for everyone/every-WOMAN, I won't trust to speak for THEMSELVES.

Kerrie wrote: "angry ranty ZOMGrape! reviews = instant Want-To-Read *clicks green button* :D"

Lol, yeah that's kinda true for me too ;) I know I've found several of my favs based on negative reviews more than the positives.

The only reason I'd advocate content warnings is to possibly encourage publishers to be a bit more open minded about BRs.

This rapewagon has no brakes, baby. >:D

Wendy, Lady Evelyn Quince wrote: "Anna Campbell's Claiming the Courtesan was an modern regency attempt at the bodice ripper style, with a hero who relentlessly pursues the heroine, kidnaps her, force-seduces her, whatever, but I did not like it because of the emo, crybaby hero and the endless navel gazing and pages and pages of inner monologue."

Chiming in a little late, I know, but I totally agree re: Claiming the Courtesan. It just didn't ring true to the old style; rather, it was like the author tried to placate her audience by making the hero a whinging woobie after he realized she was crying during the rape!sex...which lead to pages upon pages of told-not-shown psychological lint-picking. Making the hero so spastic about forced sex + FEELz didn't make him a classically-styled alpha. It just made him a creepy psycho nutball. :P

That being said...at least the author TRIED to bring back something of the old-school into mainstream blah romance. Gotta give her that much. I wish more authors would at least make the attempt.

Sarah wrote: "Chiming in a little late, I know, but I totally agree re: Claiming the Courtesan. It just didn't ring true to the old style."

Glad I've continued to skip this one. I see a lot of raves about it, but you ladies have convinced me of my suspicions that the H would come off as a creepy stalker rather than a 'take what's mine' alpha.

Yup, that's pretty much the entire book in a nutshell.

It's a shame that classic alphas are getting muddled with creepy stalkers. These newer authors are so confused. *long-suffering sigh*

Sarah wrote: "Making the hero so spastic about forced sex + FEELz didn't make him a classically-styled alpha. It just made him a creepy psycho nutball. :P

That being said...at least the author TRIED to bring back something of the old-school into mainstream blah romance. Gotta give her that much. I wish more authors would at least make the attempt. "

Rant ahead:
ITA about Claiming the Courtesan, that’s why I gave it two stars instead of one: although I hated the execution, I thought it was refreshing what Campbell was trying to do. I appreciated what she attempted to create in Kylemore: a loathsome, detestable anti-hero, who cared only for his spoiled noble self yet somehow drew your attention. But in reality, what she produced on paper was a bratty, uncharismatic, psycho stalker. I know I’m an anomaly in this, but sometime I yearn for the days of a stoic, inscrutable hero, whose actions spoke more than his thoughts, and when he spoke, the words meant something. I prefer to be in the hero’s head as little as possible.

Soraya/Verity, with her dual personality was an interesting but flawed depiction about a woman who had to sell her body to help her family. This seemed to me like Campbell was intending this to be a romantic feminist oeuvre, like any good bodice ripper (because I do believe, despite the rapey-reputation, bodice rippers are ultimately feminist), but fell this book fell flat. There was so much introspection and bad sex that it bored me.

The problem with books likes "Claiming the Courtesan,” is that these authors forget is what was missing from the great books of old. You got to watch a plot unfold. Besides being emotionally overwrought, what CTC lacked was tension. Imagine if instead, the book began with Kylemore meeting Verity, a courtesan desired by many, then slowly seduced her away from her protector. All the while Verity would be conflicted but determined to end her time as a prostitute and retire. We’d see into more Verity & Kylemore’s relationship, perhaps a snarky side character or two, and more into the evil mother. Then (as the book began) Verity would escape from him, Kylemore would track her down and kidnap her, and we’d see how they bonded. Then at last, how they dealt with their scandalous relationship in society, and perhaps decide to fuck it all and go to the colonies. Perhaps a sex scene or two would have to be omitted, along with tens of pages on inner monologue. But that’s your drama, that’s a story.

Instead, there’s a thin watered down plot. There were two to three long chapters alone where after Verity is kidnapped (and this takes a huge portion of the book) she escapes from her carriage, gets lost in the dark and is chased by Kylemore is finally caught and brought to his castle? Was that necessary?

That’s my frustration with so many new books; they’ve lost the art of storytelling in favor of emotional overload.

Wendy, Lady Evelyn Quince wrote: "sometime I yearn for the days of a stoic, inscrutable hero, whose actions spoke more than his thoughts, and when he spoke, the words meant something. I prefer to be in the hero’s head as little as possible."

All I have to say is Morgan from Blake´s Embrace and Conquer. We never got in his head and he was all about being stoic and guarding his pride. But, it should have been so clear to anyone who could read between the lines that he loved Felicite and would die to protect her. I still love the scene at the end where he´s gobsmacked to realize Felicite thinks he doesn't love her. He called her a simpleton and that always makes me laugh.

I think part of the problem is that people don't know how to read. They just assume that the POV character is a reliable interpreter of reality, unless they're spoon fed everyone else´s POV as well.

Wendy, Lady Evelyn Quince wrote: "I know I’m an anomaly in this, but sometime I yearn for the days of a stoic, inscrutable hero, whose actions spoke more than his thoughts, and when he spoke, the words meant something."

YES.

I appreciated what she attempted to create in Kylemore: a loathsome, detestable anti-hero, who cared only for his spoiled noble self yet somehow drew your attention. But in reality, what she produced on paper was a bratty, uncharismatic, psycho stalker.

Yup.

That’s my frustration with so many new books; they’ve lost the art of storytelling in favor of emotional overload.

Totally.

...Actually, I agree with everything you wrote in that post, so I won't copy & paste anymore. Heh. But you've definitely hit it on the head.

Kerrie wrote: "angry ranty ZOMGrape! reviews = instant Want-To-Read *clicks green button* :D"

Julz wrote: "I don't like the idea about warnings on books. How would I ever find my favorites without all the angry one star reviews??? (just kidding folks...sorta >;D)"

**Standing inline behind you ;)**

I have given up trying to guess which books are true bodicerippers and which ones aren't now I am relying on Regan's Blog and her list of bests

Yes I like a good old historical romance but when I am in the mood for a BR and I get half way through and realize the book is not I am so disappointed!

To be honest I like the BRs better so would prefer them anyway.

KatieV wrote: "I was just looking at the new releases on Amazon and saw Captive Rose by Olivia Wheeler. Anyway, Amazon is advertising it as 'Bodice Ripper Romance'. Seems fishy to me, or maybe I..."

I can not find this book on Amazon only the Mariam Minger books

Blondie wrote: "KatieV wrote: "I was just looking at the new releases on Amazon and saw Captive Rose by Olivia Wheeler. Anyway, Amazon is advertising it as 'Bodice Ripper Romance'. Seems fishy to..."

It mysteriously disappeared along with her other two books that were published last week. I feel kinda bad about that because she only had one review on one book and it was lukewarm... and I left it. Not sure what's up. Maybe she's pulling them to do some editing. There were definitely some errors needing fixing in the text.

KatieV wrote: "Blondie wrote: "KatieV wrote: "I was just looking at the new releases on Amazon and saw Captive Rose by Olivia Wheeler. Anyway, Amazon is advertising it as 'Bodice Ripper Romance'...."


Maybe you are right but a 3* review is still an average number so I doubt it was the rating more like needed more editing

Julz wrote: "I don't like the idea about warnings on books. How would I ever find my favorites withou..."

Blondie wrote: "**Standing inline behind you ;)**"

Woot! We have the power! :D