David Chalian
00:00:01
Hey, everyone, I'm David Chalian, CNN's Political Director, and welcome to the CNN Political Briefing. Vice President Kamala Harris has accepted her party's nomination for president.
Vice President Kamala Harris
00:00:13
On behalf of everyone whose story could only be written in the greatest nation on Earth, I accept your nomination to be President of the United States of America.
David Chalian
00:00:32
This week's Democratic National Convention served as the official passing of the torch from President Joe Biden to his handpicked vice president, Kamala Harris. Night one was Biden's chance to take a bow.
President Joe Biden
00:00:46
What shall our legacy be? What will our children say? Let me know in my heart when my days are through America, America – I gave my best to you.
David Chalian
00:01:00
On night two, Barack and Michelle Obama had the task of shifting the convention from a sendoff for Biden to a springboard for Harris.
President Barack Obama
00:01:09
Americas is ready for a new chapter. America is ready for a better story. We are ready for a President Kamala Harris.
David Chalian
00:01:21
And Wednesday was Minnesota Governor Tim Walz's chance to introduce himself as the VP nominee on the Democratic Party's biggest stage.
Gov. Tim Walz
00:01:30
You know, you might not know it, but I haven't given a lot of big speeches like this. But I have given a lot of pep talks. Let me finish with this, team. It's the fourth quarter. We're down a field goal, but we're on offense, and we've got the ball. We're driving down the field.
David Chalian
00:01:53
'So where does this race stand after this week in Chicago? I sat down with POLITICO's Ryan Lizza Thursday afternoon at the CNN Politico Grill. Ryan is POLITICO's chief Washington correspondent, co-author of Playbook and host of the Deep Dive podcast. And like me, he's been at the DNC all week long. He joined me to talk through the takeaways from the first three nights of the convention.
00:02:18
Ryan – here we are again at a CNN Politico Grill, this time in Chicago, Illinois, for the DNC. And thank you so much for doing this.
Ryan Lizza
00:02:25
My pleasure. A few things have happened since we last talked.
David Chalian
00:02:29
That is so true. I mean, our last conversation at the end of the RNC was like, what is going to happen with Biden? And then, you know, three days later we learned the result of that, and here we are.
Ryan Lizza
00:02:39
We got robbed of our contested convention, David.
David Chalian
00:02:42
We did, we did. This is as dramatically a reshaped presidential contest as I have ever covered in the midst of one. And I think one of the things out of this convention in Chicago that has struck me, and I'd love to hear what your thoughts are on this – it seems that with Harris at the top of the ticket and what they've put forth this week, they are posting up against Donald Trump differently than Joe Biden was posting up against Donald Trump. Joe Biden was all about making Donald Trump just an imminent threat to American democracy and so not able to do the job, what have you. And it seems to me in this Harris DNC, this is more about kind of – like we heard from her after the NABJ when she didn't take the bait and she just said, same old story, same old show. We heard the Obamas call his stuff stale. It seems to me they're sort of almost dismissive of him in a way, rather than the way Biden was sort of posting up against him. What do you think?
Ryan Lizza
00:03:41
Yeah, we've gone from the John – oh my God, I'm stealing this from our buddy, Robert Costa at CBS News because it's such a good line.
David Chalian
00:03:50
I haven't heard it. So I'm glad you're stealing it.
Ryan Lizza
00:03:51
'You know, we've gone from the summer of Jon Meacham, Biden's well-known speechwriter, very serious historian, cares a lot about, right, about the themes that Biden was writing about, the threat to democracy that Trump posed to the oh, God, now I'm forgetting Costa's analogy, but basically to the summer of weirdness, right? To the fact that the party has really taken the Tim Walz, these guys are just, they're just weird, you know, they're a bunch of cranks and randos and yeah, we have to take it pretty seriously, but it's not as much doom and gloom in the message that's in there. And as you pointed, I think the two people that really hit this home the most to me were Michelle and Barack Obama.
President Barack Obama
00:04:33
There's the childish nicknames, the crazy conspiracy theories, this weird obsession with crowd sizes.
Ryan Lizza
00:04:41
They ripped Trump in those two speeches quite a bit, but it was more 2011 White House Correspondents Dinner Barack Obama when he famously roasted Trump. It mocked him, made fun of him. And, you know, this is a totally new strategy. Democrats have been trying to figure out how to go after Trump for years now. And this has been tried here and there. But I think you identified one of the major, major switches in how going from Biden to Harris has changed their attack on on Trump.
David Chalian
00:05:12
It's just a different approach to the opponent. And not that they don't want to talk about democracy. They did. They did a whole January 6th section. It's not — I don't mean, I don't want our listeners to think I'm dismissing the threat Trump may pose to democracy. It's just in how they're messaging around it. And it seems to me what Democrats have done in this convention, the place where they go, sort of for the serious contrast is on Project 2025 and the policies, the policy prescriptions that a second Trump administration would bring. That's what they're sort of doing, the fear around or the seriousness around, and that he himself, as you said, is up for a bit more mocking than Joe Biden did.
Ryan Lizza
00:05:50
'That it's a great point. And also you saying that reminds me that this was sort of the critique of the strategy from the outside consultants in the Democratic Party who were very, very skeptical of Biden as a candidate. And his campaign's message, if you remember the kind of like Obama diaspora and we can name the names, and some of them are now working for the campaign. They were really worried about not just Biden's age, but that his message was too focused on this very issue of democracy and needed to be more concrete pocketbook issues. And the Project 2025 stuff allows them to do that a lot more. And then the second part of that is, you know, infusing a little bit more populism and not talking as much about Biden's successes, you know, and Kamala Harris is now free to pick and choose which things she wants to talk about from the Biden administration, separate herself from things he did and chart a whole new future-oriented course.
David Chalian
00:06:48
'Yeah. Future-oriented is also a whole piece of the puzzle here that they are putting together the Democrats for viewers and voters, because it seems to me, Ryan, no matter what, there was no possible way for Joe Biden just given incumbency and age, that he could ever be the representation or embodiment of turning the page to something new. That just wasn't going to be possible. And so part of this whole thing we've been talking about these double haters — neither one of these guys could really turn the page to something next for America. And instantly with Harris atop the ticket and her quickly coalescing the Democratic Party around her, she is the embodiment of turning the page.
Ryan Lizza
00:07:33
Yeah. I mean, Trump is now more of the incumbent in this race than Kamala Harris, even though she's the vice president. And that is a massive opportunity that the Democrats have seized. What must be really hard for Joe Biden and his team personally is that there is a sense at this convention, and I thought I really heard it in the Obamas' speeches. If you listen really carefully, it's almost lumping Trump and Biden era as this past that needs to be moved beyond right, and that Kamala Harris is not just moving the country beyond Trump, but beyond Biden a little bit, too. I think that's implicit. And I know some Biden folks have been grumbling a little bit about that, but they realize the politics of this and the opportunity she has.
David Chalian
00:08:17
And I don't think — I don't read it necessarily as an intentional elbow at Joe Biden. And that's not what I think the intention is. I think the Biden presidency has been taking place still in the era of American politics.
Ryan Lizza
00:08:30
They're like these two wrestlers that people are sick of.
David Chalian
00:08:32
Yeah.
Ryan Lizza
00:08:33
You know, when you tangle with Trump, you kind of get slimed by him. And I think that that's what she's taking advantage of.
David Chalian
00:08:38
Yeah, I think that is totally true. And I think because the Republican Party remained enthralled with Donald Trump and what a dominant figure he is just in our body politic, right? There wasn't a way for Biden to break from the Trump era because we were still consumed with his trials and indictments, consumed with his quickly getting the party behind him, like all of that was still part of the Biden years. But it was the Trump era.
Ryan Lizza
00:09:06
That's such a good point.
David Chalian
00:09:07
That is what I think they're sort of like elbowing is that whole notion.
David Chalian
00:09:12
And look, the counterfactual here is what would have happened because Biden tried in his early days, they were edging towards a strategy of putting that guy in the rearview mirror. And maybe Trump would've won the Republican primary anyway. But there's no doubt that that Republican primary was essentially over once the indictments started coming. And, you know, Ron DeSantis has sort of complained about this. Maybe he was never going to be able to — or Nikki Haley or Ron DeSantis were never gonna be able to take down Trump, but you have to wonder if the Democrats didn't. And, you know, the law is the law. If these prosecutors believed that these indictments were appropriate, you know, that is what it is. But just politically, you have to wonder if Democrats regret a little bit turning him into the martyr that he became in the Republican Party at the moment when maybe, just possibly, he was fading.
David Chalian
00:10:00
'Yeah. The other big piece of business that I think the Democrats are doing this week, and I'd love to hear what you think on it, is I don't get the sense that they're running on any kind of specific agenda. They're making like a values-based proposition. I feel like they are trying to keep — I mean, they're hitting all the notes, right? There's an immigration section, and people talked about law and order issues, and people have talked about health care stories, obviously, and reproductive rights. It's — I'm not suggesting it's issue-free. I'm just saying it seems to me day in and day out with all the speakers that they're trying to elevate, this kind of like — Oprah Winfrey did with her remarks about patriotism and what the country demands right now. And as she said, respect and dignity. It just seems like the Democrats are putting forth a value proposition to the country right now more than, here's the platform, here's the agenda. These are the pursuits.
Ryan Lizza
00:10:51
'I agree, and I've been trying to think, why is that? And I don't have any evidence for this, but one thing is — the switch was so abrupt from Biden to Kamala Harris. Behind the scenes, you basically had a lot of like smart Democratic consultants who out of nowhere had to conceive of a convention which is thematic. And they didn't really have the Kamala Harris policy book, a two-year campaign that she, you know, where she's running.
David Chalian
00:11:18
I mean, they literally kept the Biden platform that the DNC had approved for the convention.
Ryan Lizza
00:11:25
'And no one's really talking about it. Yeah, no one's really talking about tonight. So I mean, on the other hand, I think the Democrats, with the exception of a few big issues, are pretty united policy-wise, you know, but there's some there's some gaps between the left in the middle, but it does seem like it does seem like a very consultant-driven thematic thing Like Tim Walz's speech to me was just a classic — we're going to put the football players on the stage. We're going to talk about the plaid shirts. He's a teacher. We just want like a big, broad audience who's just paying attention and might catch some of the excitement here to know 3 or 4 facts about this guy, you know? And the policy was very lightly delivered.
David Chalian
00:11:59
And one thing that the country learned about Tim Walz was how proud he made his son in that moment. When Gus just was consumed with pride and emotion for his dad, and you see him mouthing, 'That's my dad,' pointing to him on the stage. To me, I thought it was one of the breakout moments of the whole week.
Ryan Lizza
00:12:18
Absolutely.
David Chalian
00:12:18
'And to me, the Tim Walz thing — obviously it hasn't been policy-heavy; I totally agree with you on that. I'm not sure it needs to be. It seems to me the reason she chose him and what they've crafted for him and what he's putting forth is a permission structure for some potential voters that may not be naturally attracted to a Harris candidacy to keep their ears open to it. If, you know, if they're not a Trump-committed voter. It seems to me he's a vehicle — seeing what you said, the football players and this folksy white guy in plaid shirts, and there may be some people who either don't really align with the Democratic Party or don't align with what they think of Kamala Harris's version of the Democratic Party, whatever that may be. And see, well, maybe I should give this a listen.
Ryan Lizza
00:13:03
Yeah.
Gov. Tim Walz
00:13:03
I'm a veteran. I'm a hunter. And I was a better shot than most Republicans in Congress, and I got the trophies to prove it.
Ryan Lizza
00:13:12
'To me it's the response to the night of Trump's speech at the RNC where it was like Kid Rock and Hulk Hogan. You know, it's this sort of — there's a gender gap. There's a big, big gender gap. And I think there's no denying that some of the messaging last night was a male-oriented, you know, white-male-oriented, to be totally frank, targeting. You put all these football players on there on the stage for a reason.
David Chalian
00:13:34
Yeah. No doubt about it. Ryan Lizza, stay right there. We're going to take a quick break. We're going to have a lot more from the CNN Political Grill in Chicago in just a moment.
00:13:53
Welcome back to the CNN Political Briefing with my guest, Ryan Lizza of POLITICO. And we are at the CNN Politico Grill here in Chicago. Ryan, we are speaking on Thursday afternoon before Kamala Harris takes the stage for, obviously, what is the biggest political speech of her life to date as she accepts the Democratic Party's nomination after only being its presumptive nominee or nominee for four and a half weeks. What does she need to accomplish tonight?
Ryan Lizza
00:14:20
I think that the biggest strategic fight between the two candidates right now is defining the new characters in this race. They had an opportunity, and the race was on to define Kamala Harris. Then she picked Walz — the race was on to define him. Arguably they've done, with some of the, you know, mud out there, a better job, you know, muddying up walls than Harris.
David Chalian
00:14:47
Highlighting some of his inaccuracies about his military service and record and rank. And highlighting the inaccuracies about the way he described the specific kind of fertility treatment that he and his wife went through.
Ryan Lizza
00:14:58
Yeah, because these VP nominees, you know, you get a quick look early in the campaign when you're announced at your convention, and people might know 2 or 3 things about you, and then that's it. I think each side did a decent job getting their 2 to 3 things out there. But, you know, the Trump folks did some damage with the inaccuracies, just as the Harris folks did some damage with Vance and the famous cat lady line. But Harris herself has had such a good run, politically speaking. I think you and I would, and other journalists, would like her to talk to the press a little bit more, and there's going to be increasing pressure on that. But purely on the politics, and I think partly of this is Donald Trump, if you listen to him speak, if you watch his rallies and watch all the public comments he's made since the switch, he still can't get Joe Biden out of his head. He has not settled on 1 or 2 simple lines of attack against Kamala Harris, and they haven't defined her the way that they had hoped to and the way that they were given an opportunity to. And so I think Harris chugging along with a massive fundraising, with a bump up in the polls, but not putting this race away by any means.
David Chalian
00:16:11
'Oh no, certainly not. So what is the opportunity then for her if, as you're saying, the Trump people have failed really yet thus far to get a real negative frame around her that has taken hold? The upside for her is okay, that hasn't happened yet. And you have this incredible platform tonight to give this speech. This isn't a debate where you have to go back and forth. This isn't a hard-hitting interview. This is a moment for her to own her own narrative in a way. What does she need to stitch together for votes?
Ryan Lizza
00:16:40
'I think it's three things. It's one, it's biographical. It's telling them her story. So much about campaigns is stories and understanding people's stories and framing that story in a way that's rooted in the policies that she wants to pursue as president. Two, it's — this goes back to what we're talking about before —showing that she's the future, showing that she's not Joe Biden. She served him as vice president, but she's not Biden. If you don't like Biden, if you thought he was too old ; if you think his policies were bad, give her another look and maybe showing in a couple of places how her policies are a little bit different. But using that incredible opportunity the Democrats have to turn Trump into the incumbent in this race and turn Harris into the challenger, the fresh face, the person that allows them to use all of these buzzwords about hope and change. And I know it's a little unfair to to use Veep references, but, you know, her part of her challenge here is that famous Veep season where Julia Louis-Dreyfus was running on that message of, you know, "continuity with change." So she's got to pick the spots where, you know, people like the Biden administration, what he was doing. But remember, she's the candidate of change. And then the third thing is the framing on Trump. And I think it goes back to what we were talking about. I think we'll both be watching for this. What is she, Jon Meacham, or is she Tim Walz when it comes to like the the attacks on Trump? Is he this big scary threat that you blow up like a Bond villain? You know, coming back, you know, returning to the stage? Or is he this, you know, carnival act clown that should be left in the past?
David Chalian
00:18:15
'So interesting. I definitely will be looking for that. We should note, Julia Louis-Dreyfus did a whole event here with female governors. And I believe one of them said that they learned a lesson from Veep, which is that everybody needs a Gary.
Ryan Lizza
00:18:32
'Oh, yeah, I saw someone tweet that she actually, Julia Louis-Dreyfus, actually had somebody that was described on Twitter as a Gary.
David Chalian
00:18:38
So when you look at the week that has been so far in the three nights that we have had, what do you think lasts for voters out of here? Is there a line in a speech, a particular speaker? What do you think goes into the fall out of this convention for voters?
Ryan Lizza
00:18:53
I mean, not to be repetitive, but I do think it's some of the things we talked about. If they're lucky, it's the idea that if you are skeptical of the Democrats, if you are a Republican in the suburbs of Phoenix or Philadelphia or Detroit or Raleigh, and you don't like Trump, but you just — you were going to stay home because you just can't see Joe Biden doing the job, even if you wanted him to beat Trump — that some of those voters are suddenly back in play. And some of the other groups that Biden was losing to Trump, Black men, Latino voters, some of those Republicans who are looking for an excuse to remain a Republican. And sometimes Biden was giving it to them. Doug Sosnik, great Democratic strategist, was on my podcast the other day, Playbook Deep Dive at Politico.
David Chalian
00:19:49
Yes, and I listened to it, and it was an excellent conversation.
Ryan Lizza
00:19:51
And he said something fascinating. He's been around a long time, very smart. I always take what he says seriously. He says he believes that Kamala Harris has the opportunity to be a movement candidate in a way that Reagan, Obama and Trump were and that once you sort of light up the country and there's a bandwagon effect, and a movement like that does become unstoppable.
David Chalian
00:20:14
He did. He was clear that he wasn't sure she would — that she can become that. Just the potential.
Ryan Lizza
00:20:20
Yeah, just the potential. And I had not thought of that before. I'd not thought that — but I think it's interesting that smart consultants believe that, you know, that she has that opportunity. I think a lot of people in the Washington press corps underestimated her. I'll speak for myself. I think a lot of us saw her 2020 campaign as mediocre. She got a big burst of attention in her first two years for things that weren't positive. And then I think she kind of went underground a little bit where we weren't watching her, except the Kamala Harris beat reporters. And so expectations are so important in politics.
David Chalian
00:20:51
But she didn't go underground and just kick back. She went underground and did a lot of work to turn this around.
Ryan Lizza
00:20:57
She was ready. She was ready.
David Chalian
00:21:00
The Harris turnaround probably started a year and a half ago. But it went unnoticed. And it got noticed real fast on July 21st, 22nd and beyond.
Ryan Lizza
00:21:11
Absolutely. And we're seeing the fruits of it continuing, you know, into tonight.
David Chalian
00:21:15
You know, these things are — you're talking to a very loyal crowd, these convention speeches. Is there a danger for her tonight? Are the stakes big for her? Or it's just like all potential opportunity that could be, perhaps, not seized, but not real danger for her.
Ryan Lizza
00:21:32
Look, I mean, this is gravy in a presidential race. It's a scripted speech with video components. The chances for something going catastrophically wrong are low. I think the danger is what happens tomorrow. What happens the day after, you know, is there a hangover? The excitement at this convention and the excitement around Harris from Democrats, I think maybe exceeds a little bit the polling and the numbers.
David Chalian
00:22:00
And just the political reality on the ground in these states.
Ryan Lizza
00:22:02
Yes. And how close this race really is. Yeah. She is not blowing this race open. She has made it competitive.
David Chalian
00:22:09
That's why speaker after speaker keeps kind of reminding people — it's like Michelle Obama's refrain in her speech, do something. You know, I mean, like Barack Obama had a whole section of his speech, it was like really trying to get the urgency of action that you have to — you know, that's an unknown for us right now as we sit here. We'll have to see how they convert this into the stuff, as "Coach Walz" as they like to call him said last night, the "blocking and tackling" over these next 75 days.
Ryan Lizza
00:22:38
They have a real opportunity to do that, that they just did not have with Biden because Democrats were not excited about Biden, 75% of them didn't want him to be the nominee. And boy, did it take a long time for the Democratic Party to listen to those voters. And obviously, it took a catastrophic debate by Biden to really listen. But imagine what this convention would be like if that debate was just a sort of middling performance, and it had continued on that course. I don't think we'd be seeing the, you know, what we've seen in there the last few nights. Reminds me more of 2008 than any other convention I've been to.
David Chalian
00:23:13
And perhaps the timing of it may end up being one of the greatest advantages, that she ends up having if she's successful. I think because when you look back on that — that the compressed schedule, that Biden's departure from the scene did not happen at the beginning of 2023.
Ryan Lizza
00:23:31
Yeah. She would have had to run in a primary.
David Chalian
00:23:33
Or let's even say it happened in the spring, and there wasn't a real primary. This very compressed schedule, if she's successful, I think we'll be looked at as one of the key factors in that.
Ryan Lizza
00:23:41
You think in the future political strategists will look to the strategy of let someone else win the primary and then the party will sub out someone who doesn't get beat up.
David Chalian
00:23:49
It's a good theory.
Ryan Lizza
00:23:51
You gotta run on the substitution strategy.
David Chalian
00:23:52
Ryan Lizza, thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it.
Ryan Lizza
00:23:54
Thank you, David. Pleasure.
David Chalian
00:23:58
'That's it for this week's edition of the CNN Political Briefing. We want to hear from you. Is there a question you'd like answered about this election cycle? Is there a guest you really want to hear from? Give us a call at (202) 618-9460, or send us an email at CNN Political Briefing@Gmail.com. And you might just be featured on a future episode of the podcast. So don't forget to tell us your name, where you're from, how we can reach you, and if you give us permission to use the recording on the podcast. CNN Political Briefing is a production of CNN Audio. This episode was produced by Emily Williams. Our senior producer is Felicia Patinkin. Dan Dzula is our Technical Director, and Steve Lickteig is the Executive Producer of CNN Audio. Support from Alex Manasseri, Robert Mathers, Jon Dianora, Leni Steinhardt, Jamus Andrest, Nichole Pesaru, and Lisa Namerow. Special thanks to Katie Hinman. We'll be back with a new episode on Friday, August 30th. Thanks so much for listening.
