I'm about to show my age here a little bit. Maybe I'll regret this, but I did not get my own personal cell phone until I was in high school. That little Nokia really did not do much beyond keypad style texting and a couple of rudimentary games. Snake was fun, but I never lost an hour to it or anything. I mostly used the cell to call my parents. Obviously these days, phones can do way more and they can be a huge distraction, especially in schools. Some experts say the devices, along with social media, are actively hindering education and exacerbating a mental health crisis among children. In fact, U.S. Surgeon General Vivek Murthy so concerned that three months ago he called on Congress to add a warning label on social media platforms like the ones you see on cigarrettes. Well, now some states are cracking down in the classroom.

At least 11 states have passed laws or enacted policies that ban or restrict students use of cell phones in schools, or recommended that local school districts enact their own restrictive policies.

Each student has been given a yonder magnetic pouch to keep their phones out of reach.

As you might expect, many students don't love it.

You can't tell me that sounds legal or like constitutional.

That is so unacceptable. Like y'all pay for my phones, you pay for my cell, and you're going to take it away from me for, like, eight hours in a day.

I'm going to be 18 for the majority of my senior year. And literally, they're going to try and make literal adults put their phone into a pouch.

But what this actually looks like varies wildly from state to state, from school to school.

We begin with breaking news. The L.A. Unified School District has approved a plan to ban students from using their cell phones during the entire school day.

It's become a super divisive issue in New York City. Just a week before the first day of classes, Mayor Eric Adams pump the brakes on the city. School chancellor has hinted at plans to enact such a policy.

New York is different from L.A. We're unique animal. Trust me. And if you don't do it right, you won't get it right.

But now that some schools have had a chance to try this out, is it making a difference? Today, I'm going to talk to one school superintendent about what the ban looks like in her schools. From CNN, This is one thing. I'm David Brown. So school's been in session how many weeks?

So if you can believe it, we've been in school since July the 24th.

And good Lord.

I know.

'Dr. Laura Hammack is the superintendent of Beech Grove City Schools and Beech Grove, Indiana. It's about a 15 minute drive from downtown Indianapolis. Their school district is home to six schools, grades pre-K through 12. And ever since classes started over a month and a half ago, they have had to operate under Indiana's version of a cell phone law for students. Senate Bill 185, which took effect on July 1st. So with a few weeks of classes in the books, I wanted to call up panic to see how this law is impacting students and teachers at her schools and what enforcement actually looks like. I started our conversation by asking her how big a problem cell phones and class were before the law.

I can tell you that our educators would have identified cell phone usage as probably one of their primary concerns, as something that would interrupt the ability for a lesson to kind of take place and for kind of good quality learning to happen, like.

There were noticeable disruptions to their teaching.

Right, Right. So the cell phone AirPods, the smart watches, you know, all of these different devices in coordination with the device that all of our students are issued, which is their Chromebook device or an iPad. Right. You have a whole bunch of sort of notifications and occasions for attention to be distracted, right? And so with all of these different elements going on, it was difficult for teachers in some cases to be able to sort of gain the full attention for the task at hand.

And every student gets a Chromebook?

Yes. So if you are a student in kindergarten through the second grade, you are issued an iPad. And then if you are in third through 12th grade, you have a Chromebook device.

That's interesting. So there's there's already screens present? Yes. Well, so this new state law is kind of taking effect now regarding cell phones in classrooms, can you just tell me exactly like what it says and how you interpret it?

Sure. Effectively, the legislature in the last session made it statutory that cell phones are not permitted to be in the classroom. They are not permitted to be on. You are not allowed to have them on during class time. However, each school district has their ability to determine the actual protocol for what you do with the device. So here in Beech Grove, kindergarten through eighth grade, cell phones are not allowed to be out. They're not allowed to be in class. They need to be off and away. So in a backpack or in a locker, full stop. But at the high school, students are able to have the cell phones on their person or in a backpack, but they are just not allowed to be on during class time unless and this is what the legislator sort of gave us some flexibility unless the teacher allows for the cell phone to be on. So if there are, for example, five minutes at the end of class where maybe students are going to kind of working on homework, then if a teacher allows for students to be able to use their phones, then they can do it at that time. They are also allowed during passing period and they're allowed during lunch time. So any of kind of those downtimes during a school day, they're allowed to have their phones. There are several other caveats that the state has also placed in the statute that if a student needs a cell on and going in class time because of some sort of medical need. So some of our students with diabetes, for example, they have monitors that kind of speak to their phone. Right. And so they fundamentally will need to have their phone out as well. There are some some flexibility is in place that if there is some sort of emergency or some sort of situation where a student feels like they need to make contact with their parent, they are able to do that. So there's flexibility there as well.

So the phone is not physically separated from the student really at any time. That doesn't sound a lot different than probably what it was before. Am I right in saying that?

So kindergarten through eighth grade, the phones are separated from the students, so the phone is in a backpack. It is away and it is not allowed to be out. But at the high school, it can be on their body, which is definitely not different from what it was before. However, before students would even I mean, it's almost like what we as grown ups do. Like if we come to a meeting, we have our phone out on the table, you know, while we're right. Like, while we're meeting students, we kind of do that in the classroom space as well.

And that was just happening on a regular basis.

Yeah, just like. Like just like you and I would go to a meeting. Students would have their phones out in class. Some teachers before the line really just had no time for it and, you know, would have a mechanism in place for even kind of curating the phones in some sort of storage device in the classroom space. So like one example that we had at our high school, a teacher had kind of like a like a shoe tree, you know, like you would use in your closet at home. And students would put they would like one of those sort of cubbies would be, you know, number one. And if you were student one, that's where your cell would sort of hang out during the class period. And then at the end of the class period, you'd pick up your phone. So some of those mechanisms have worked and have worked great and they continue to use those. If that, you know, has worked for that teacher. But the most observable difference is, is how the phone now is just not in the classroom environment when instruction is taking place. And we think that's a good thing.

I'm just wondering about your policy, the fact that it's not, you know, fully separating the kid from the phone at all times, like at the school level. Do you think there's value in going farther than. In literally, you know, putting the phone somewhere else so that there's not even the temptation to reach for it.

So it's interesting. And that's what has been really fascinating to kind of watch how this law has been interpreted across Indiana. So I'm noticing my colleagues doing some different things. And what's been sort of interesting is how we then have collaborated on what's working well, what's not working well. You know, areas where we can kind of learn from each other, you know, in our own application. So for example, several colleagues have systems in place where the students are actually required to take their phones and place them in a locked kind of baggie, like there are actual devices that you can purchase there, security companies that are, you know, kind of making sure that we know that these things are available. Right?

So they do this at like super exclusive concerts or comedy events.

Exactly. That's that that is that is the system. And they are quite expensive. But as I understand it there, once you kind of get your system down, then students check their phone in and then at the end of the day or at lunchtime, whenever the determined time is, they they sort of get access. It goes back in the zip lock and then, you know, then they go on their way. And honestly, I to talk to superintendent colleagues that are deploying that method, it seems to be working well for them. Here in Beech Grove. We are an urban school district and we kind of wanted to take this step sort of, you know, not all the way to a completely checked phone, but wanted to be able to relieve some of the anxiety that our students were sharing, that if they were fundamentally unpaired from their phone, they were worried about what they might do in an emergency situation. I think because the phone is such an endemic part of just the life of our young people today, that the inability to connect to a parent in a time of need is just highly anxiety inducing for for our students.

So that was part of your consideration. Like, like I'm thinking about this horrible shooting in Georgia the other day.

I immediately texted to my dad and I was just like, I don't know if this is a drill. I'm really scared.

And, you know, the horrifying text messages that were sent between students and parents in those moments.

School shooting. I'm scared. Please, I'm not joking. I'm leaving work, says the mom. I love you. Love you too, baby.

Yes, I think very much so in our consideration. Not, you know, clearly thinking about the anxiety that might be present if a student can't contact their parent. And then conversely, the sincere concern that we knew that our parents would hold if they couldn't contact their child. Now, what is really important is kind of teaching our families and teaching our students about the right times to be connecting. And then, you know, kind of the times that it is totally appropriate that if your child doesn't text you back, that that is because they're in class. And, you know, there is there's just a time and a space to be able to to do that.

That's interesting. There's a job of the parents to do here as well, to not bombard kids all day long that there needs to be this time of just like, let's let them do their school thing.

Yes, absolutely. And because, you know, again, it's just that these phones are just so endemic and just how we are and just the way that we navigate our day, it is just sort of second nature. Like if there's a change of plans after school and a parent wants to make sure that their child understands what's going on after school, that's fine, right? But it just might not be instant for a response. Right?

So what is the reaction been from students who have had to adjust to this?

It has been mixed, right. So certainly you could talk to students at beachfront high school today who think that this is tyranny. They think that this is the worst thing that could possibly happen. And then we've had some great conversations with students where they were clearly disappointed that the law was in place. They were worried about what that might mean for them during the day. But the candidly that they do agree that when that phone is not there, they are just not apt to be distracted and that it's actually been the words that we heard the other day when we were talking about this with kids was refreshing. Like they just appreciated the ability to be unpaired with their phone for that classroom time.

Have you had any trouble with enforcement like kids, you know, basically saying this isn't for me and I'm just going to do what I want to do?

We have certainly interestingly, it hasn't necessarily been the phone that we're kids have doubled down. It's the AirPods, which is just so interesting. And when we've interviewed the kids to kind of get a better understanding of the why behind it, many students believe that they learn better when they have music going, right? So it's not necessarily that they're having conversation with someone with their AirPods, it's that they have music that's music.

But they're still listening to the instruction or filling out the worksheet or whatever.

So they say, and truly, when it comes to like that work time, if I'm thinking of this, I've talked with one student where he said that to me. It's that they they like to kind of plug in and then tune out the rest of the noise, if you will, and just, you know, attend to whatever is in front of that.

If that's really what's happening. That sounds relatively harmless to me.

Yeah. Yeah. It seems that seems completely understandable. I'm a learner who doesn't necessarily can't necessarily sort of deeply think when I have other, you know, sort of noise happening. But many people do. Right? And so I respect that. And particularly for students with ADHD, this is this is actually an intervention that has been deployed that allows for students to attend because they can kind of have that extra, you know, sort of thing happening. So that's another example of a student.

At this law. It's not allowed.

Not necessarily. So for students with special needs and their individual education plan, if it is that a student requires headphones or AirPods or some sort of blocking device, then that is allowable.

Your comparison about the idea of when adults are in meetings and they have their phone like I've been, they're guilty as charged. Yeah. And I guess I'm wondering, like at a certain point, like high schoolers, should we let them, like, make that decision and allow them, like if they need to scroll super quick but still focus when they need to focus? Like how do you think about that?

Yeah, I think what we are trying to do is teach smart tech usage, which if I'm being honest, you know, I cannot focus or be creative or, you know, sort of get into mindspace if we're in a collaborative meeting. You know, when I'm distracted by my phone. And so it's kind of teaching those healthy habits about when it's okay to be on and when it's not okay to be on. Right. So I think by kind of creating these structures, you know, it's our responsibility to prepare our students for like what's next, right? Many of our students go to vocational school after college or right into the workplace or military. And so it is appropriate, I think, for students to understand that there are just going to be times in life when the phone can't be on or next to you or right there.

But I guess that's smart tech usage. How do you balance that with the idea that you're also giving Chromebooks to every student to use, like you're putting these screens right in front of their face? So like, how are they not going to have the idea that they should have a screen nearby at all times?

That's right. And the construct that, yes, I've been guilty. You're fundamentally right that the construct that is sort of embraced is that because we're in the society that these tech tools are that that they are tools, right? That they're one component of a broader network of ways in which we engage, in which we research, we innovate, we create. Right. So in some spaces, creative iteration happens when you're working with people and you're you're sort of, you know, shared conversation. Phones are off, laptops are down. And so I know that we as adults are certainly not necessarily portraying healthy behaviors when we're on the phone or, you know, distracted by, you know, all these different sort of inputs. But I've actually said to all of our principals, like, if we can disconnect more like this is just healthier for the brains of these developing young people. So creating space for when the tool is needed and then creating space for when the tool is not needed and kind of delighting in both.

In terms of like keeping track of of. Of what kids are up to with the devices in terms of not even just in class, in terms of just the distractions, but on social media. Like I'm thinking of stories about kids organizing fights over social media or cyberbullying, Like a lot of that stuff occurs in the hallways, in the lunchroom, you know, and of course, it's all online. So how do you balance that with this idea of, you know, restricting just the phone as a physical device?

I can tell you that our our. The number one factor. If we would do a deep data dive into any of our disciplinary referrals, any of the sort of conflict resolution that needs to be deployed full stop anything when it comes to conflict, it is its nexus. Its source is social media. The the the cyber bullying that happens, the incitements of violence. It's. I quite frankly, I don't know how our students do it right. Like, it's it's so heavy and it's so much. Now, I'm not naive enough to say, like many of our students know how to break through these walls, but social media platforms, all of these channels are blocked during the school day. Right? So when you're kind of under the umbrella of our network, there's a firewall. Yes. Yeah. When you're under the umbrella of our network, you do not have access to those. That content. But, you know, students do have the ability to they're just they're so smart and they figure out ways. But we do limit the amount of the social media activity because of that that protection. But my goodness, what happens from 4:00 in the afternoon until 8:00 the next morning is limitless. And most of the conflict that is then dealt with at school is a direct result from what has happened the evening before noon.

So this has been going for a little bit. And say you get to the end of the year, are you looking for any kind of measurables in terms of how this is actually working, in terms of grades? Or is it just, you know, teacher by teacher kind of vibe check, you know, our kids more locked in, Are there less disruptions, that kind of thing.

Right. And we've already done a little bit of that just to get a sense for how teachers are feeling about these changes. And they are very happy with where we are. It is just not the fight that it might have been last year when they would have, you know, sort of made asks of students to kind of put phones away because now it's just this is the standard rule. And students, you know, again, I really thought it was going to be a lot harder that we would witness a lot more pushback, but it just hasn't been there. And so I would imagine that any changes that we would make would would be subtle because of what's happening right now really seems to be working.

Interesting. We'll see how it plays out. Laura, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

Absolutely. Thank you.

One thing is a production of CNN Audio. This episode was produced by Paola Ortiz and me, David Rind. Our senior producers are Felicia Patinkin and Faiz Jamil. Matt Dempsey is our production manager. Dan Dzula is our technical director, and Steve Lickteig is the executive producer of CNN Audio. We get support from Hayley Thomas, Alex Manasseri, Robert Mathers, John Dianora, Leni Steinhart, Jamus Andrest, Nichole Pesaru and Lisa Namerow. Special thanks to Wendy Brundage and Katie Hinman. We will be back on Wednesday with another episode. I will talk to you then.