The Rory Gilmore Book Club discussion

Our July reading is Reading Lolita in Tehran by Azar Nafisi. Let's start discussing, folks!

Ooh, I forgot this one was coming up next (I've been rather busy and therefore inactive, sorry), but I've been wanting to read it for ages, so better go looking for it in the library now!

Just finished this one and I have to say I was completely moved by it. I'll wait to say more than that let everyone read it .... but it really touched me. So amazing!

I have been wanting to read this one for ages, too. Can't wait to get started.

Heather wrote: "Just finished this one and I have to say I was completely moved by it. I'll wait to say more than that let everyone read it .... but it really touched me. So amazing!"

Should I read this if I haven't read Lolita yet? I just started it but don't want to be spoiled.

Ashley, I think there are a lot of spoilers in this book not only for Lolita, but other works as well.

I'm around chapter 13 right now and somehow it feels like the book isn't as 'structured' as I thought it would be. I thought the author repeats herself a lot when she said "Could you imagine us, in that room..." as she begins a new chapter. But the story is definitely interesting, as is her insight into Nabokov's works.

Yeah, so, this leads me to a question that I haven't been able to figure out (and frustrated me, so I hadn't participated much recently):

Are the books supposed to be completed by the beginning of the month (i.e., July 1), hence having a month for the discussion, or are we supposed to read them that month, leaving the discussion for the next (i.e., August)?

Christine, we usually read and discuss in the same month (in this case, July), so we post our thoughts and discussions as we go along. Remember to put spoiler warnings, though, if you feel that what you're talking about might spoil the story for others. But you can chime in the discussion any time, really, even after the month is over.

Please don't be frustrated, we're pretty lax around here :)

I'm about 2/3 of the way into this one.

I was a little worried about spoilers, also. I had read Lolita, so I wasn't paying much attention to spoilers in that regard. But I had not read Daisy Miller, and there was a major spoiler there. It didn't really bother me too much. I feel like I would still have much to gain from reading the novel despite knowing the ending. And I actually do want to read it, and others mentioned soon.

I'm really enjoying this, and highly recommend it for anyone who's thinking of picking it up. It is a book for book-lovers.

FYI: Just discovered a recommended reading list in the back of my copy. I guess I can stop underlying all the titles now. :)

I haven't started reading the book yet. But I read it once before, so I'll join the discussion anyway. (I only have the German translation, though.) But I do want to re-read it, really.

When I read this book for the first time I remember liking it, but also lacking something, I felt it didn't go far enough with the literature discussions. For literature students sitting together and talking about classics, I just thought the discussions (or what we get to read about them) weren't deep enough. But as I suppose the book is meant to appeal to all kinds of people, not just literature students. And so the parts about life in Iran, the author's life and the literature discussions get equal attention.

When reading the book for the first time I also read this book shortly after or before, so I got a rather up-to-date picture of life and people in Iran:We Are Iran
I also really liked it, it presents a lot of different views and shows more than it tells.

I read this within the last couple of years and thought it was great. My review is on the book's goodreads page if anyone wants to read it. I was in my late twenties, a writer, and a marxist during the Iranian revolution and the takeover of the US Embassy; when I read the book, I felt a sort of kinship with Nafisi.

Dini wrote: "Ashley, I think there are a lot of spoilers in this book not only for Lolita, but other works as well.

I'm around chapter 13 right now and somehow it feels like the book isn't as 'structured' as ..."

Thanks. I really want to read this one but I think I'll pick it up after I read Lolita.

Deborah: I imagine that you did feel a kinship! I will be interested to read your review when I have finished the book. Not much more to go.

I didn't like this book at all. I thought it will be more exiciting. And it was all about hurted pride I was an academic teacher, I got kicked out cause of the Revolution and now I have to conduct lectures for bunch of girls.

Anna, I haven't finished the book (just got to part 2) but I didn't get the feeling that she was at all upset about teaching the girls. In fact it's mentioned in the beginning that it's always been a dream of her to handpick her students and discuss her favorite literature with them.

For me there was too much on strictly personal situation of each of the girls without much relation between them and Lolita beside the fact they were reading it.

I love this book. I think the writing is wonderful, and I love how passionate the teacher as well as the students are about learning and living, despite their surroundings. Makes me realize how privledged we are, and how that privledge likely takes away from our appreciation of the finer things. We have such easy access to them, that we can't fully appreciate them. Well, I am speaking at least for myself.

I am about half way through the book. I almost gets tiring sometimes reading the extremist students views towards women and american society. At some points in the novel it almost feels like some of the Iranian students are obsessed with American and their hatred towards our culture. I did like her insight into lolita, which is a difficult book to read.

I'm in the second part, Gatsby. Still waiting for her to actually discuss Gatsby the way she talked about Lolita in the previous part, I really enjoy those stuff, being a lit major. I do think it was easier for me to understand when she's talking about the Iranian revolution because I already read Persepolis by Marjane Satrapi, who described the history in a more understandable way.

I started this yesterday. I'm not far into it yet, but so far I find it interesting. I just got into the part where she started talking about how Lolita is meaningful for their lives, and thought that was really fascinating. It makes sense to me, though I've never read Lolita.

I also enjoy the writing, it makes the lives of the girls open up very vividly as I read.

Katri wrote: "I also enjoy the writing, it makes the lives of the girls open up very vividly as I read."

At first I had difficulties differentiating the girls, though. It was like, most of them were shy and introverted and only later showed their true selves. I found myself turning back a few times just to get myself clear on who is who.

This book moved me in a way I was not expecting. It was just so beautiful how books took them out of their troubled worlds for a while. I loved the part where the teacher says how writers create their own worlds through words, that is so true. I didn't have a hard time at all with the writing style but some of the transitions between the past and the present or the future where a bit choppy. What a good read!

I'm hoping to re-read this before the end of the month, but we'll see. I read it in 2003 and found it absolutely moving. I was lucky enough to meet the author that same year as part of a program at my college. She is just amazing -- so warm and brilliant. Lolita and The Great Gatsby are two of my favorite novels, so her insight was fascinating to me. My uncle also fled Iran during the rise of the shah, so I found the background helped me to understand his history better, though Nafisi told us specifically that this book was not meant to be a history lesson. It is a memoir in books, and looking at it in that light is the best way to understand and appreciate it.

I agree with Dini--there were so many girls, I had a hard time differentiating them as well.

One thing about this novel, I thought it was going to be primarily concerning their reading circle in the author's home, but I found only a small part of the novel actually dealt with their reading group. A large part of it was background information, and literary criticism. It's almost billed as a bit of a Jane Austen Book Club type group, but it's very different from that.

Having said that, I loved the weaving-in of the literary criticism. I think it suited the author to do so. It reminded me of the reason we read: to put ourselves and our situations in the context of the stories we are reading, so that we may better cope, and make better decisions.

Dini wrote: "Ashley, I think there are a lot of spoilers in this book not only for Lolita, but other works as well.

I'm around chapter 13 right now and somehow it feels like the book isn't as 'structured' as ..."

I'm only about half as far as you, Dini, and that's bothering me as well. Another thing that bothers me is a feeling I get that we're getting more of the author's perception of things than the other women's. Maybe that will change. I'm always reassured when she uses direct quotes.

Alison wrote: "Having said that, I loved the weaving-in of the literary criticism. I think it suited the author to do so. It reminded me of the reason we read: to put ourselves and our situations in the context of the stories we are reading, so that we may better cope, and make better decisions."

I'm not reading this yet (and I'm not sure I will until I've read some more of the books referenced), but that is a great observation and very true. I turn to literature only too often myself as a source of wisdom, guidance, and insight.

Glad you think so to, Heather. I guess this could bring about the discussion of "why do we read", but for me, I defintely think it adds insight to who I am. Others who know me may disgree--but I like to think so. :)

Brigid wrote: "I was lucky enough to meet the author that same year as part of a program at my college. She is just amazing -- so warm and brilliant..."

Cool, Brigid! You're so lucky.

SPOILERS




Alison wrote: "One thing about this novel, I thought it was going to be primarily concerning their reading circle in the author's home, but I found only a small part of the novel actually dealt with their reading group..."

I thought so too. Part 1 was in a reading group format but part 2 & 3 was more about her teaching career, and the girls weren't there except for Nassrin. I do love the part when she held a 'trial' for The Great Gatsby in her class, that was such a brilliant idea. When I read Gatsby I thought it was just so-so, but a lot of insight from other authors (aside from Nafisi, Haruki Murakami also loves the book) have helped me appreciate it better.

The "trial" for Gatsby reminded me of something that might have been in Farenheit 451. A lot of this novel seemed like a dystopian novel set in the future, but then I had to stop and realize that censorship and oppression actually happen, currently, in all parts of the world. Which made me realize how much I take for granted, and how much more these women must have appreciated Great Literature that was so hard to come by.

Imagine hearing your entire life about The Great Gatsby, and wanting to read it, but only being able to do so via a photocopied version, or a bootleg paperback. How much more you would treasure those words.

I agree with Dini and Robbie about the lack of structure, and with Alison that I expected the book to be more about the reading group and the girls' stories. While it wasn't exactly what I expected, I did really appreciate her literary insights and her account of what was happening in Iran at the time. I plan to read all of the books on their reading list, which is conveniently in the back of the book!

One thing that's making it harder for me to keep on going with this book - I'm still stuck in the first part - is not to do with the book itself, but with Lolita. I've never read that book and I think this reading experience suggests I never well - not because I find it objectionable or something, this book is clear enough about it having some interesting content and not condoning the events that pass... But I'm really not good at dealing with reading gross, violent, psychologically nasty stuff revealing the most horrific sides of human beings. I already feel really bad reading the quotes and descriptions of Lolita in this book, so I can't imagine how I'd feel about reading Lolita itself. Right now I can't make myself pick up the book to go on because I'm afraid I'll read more descriptions of Lolita that make me feel awful inside. Maybe I should just skip the rest and go into the next part with Gatsby, and maybe return to the rest of the Lolita part later.

It's interesting that though the author compares the repression and silencing of Lolita with the repression and silencing of women in Iran, I don't feel nearly so awful reading about the latter. I know it's just as terrible, and furthermore, affects most of the women in the society, but still I feel perfectly capable of reading stuff like that, but not of reading Humbert's treatment of Lolita. I suppose it's because as a former politics student, I'm quite used to reading about what structural horrors societies can inflict on their citizens on a mass scale, but reading about an individual's treatment of an individual somehow gets much more under my skin in a horribly unpleasant way.

I just had to share that because it's what keeps me from reading an otherwise interesting book. Did anybody else have similar feelings?

Katri, I don't really feel that way, but if you feel you need to skip the Lolita parts, I say just skip it. There are times when the author devotes whole chapters just to describe her interpretation of Lolita, and while they are interesting, sometimes they don't talk about her students at all. So I think it's safe to just scan/skim those parts or skip it altogether if it's too overwhelming for you.

SPOILERS FOR PART 4



I'm just starting it, and it seems weird to me that she ended part 3 still as a lecturer at the university, but by part 4 she already quit teaching and are discussing books with the girls. I was expecting some kind of big revelation that made her quit teaching. Maybe it will be explained later, or there's actually no such occurrence?

I'm really excited about this part though, because finally it's about an author I like!

Yeah, I think I'll go on to the second part and maybe return to the Lolita part later when I feel up to it. Or read it in short bits and pieces so that it doesn't become too much.

Lolita contains some very controversial subject matter. If you don't feel comfortable reading about it, I say skip it as well. It's only a portion of the book, and I think you can still get a lot from the book by reading the other parts.

I have read Lolita, and while the writing is extraordinary, the subject matter is beyond cringe-worthy, IMO. And whether it's meant to be taken literally, or metaphorically, it's still creepy. And Humbert's behavior is unlawful as well as immoral.

Ashley wrote: "Heather wrote: "Just finished this one and I have to say I was completely moved by it. I'll wait to say more than that let everyone read it .... but it really touched me. So amazing!"

Should ..."

I actually have never read Lolita and while they really discuss the book and the plot you can enjoy this book without having read the books they discuss in their secret book club (which I found I had read only Austen, Fitzgerald(in highschool), and James) It was still moving and touching and she explains the book club discussions enough that you can enjoy their readings vicariously even if you haven't had the pleasure of reading them yourself. I have put her books on my TBR lists though as now I'm curious to read the authors she mentions. I will probably re-read this one in years to come after I've had the chance to supplement my reading with the books they enjoyed and I'm sure the book with take on a deeper meaning when I'm able to catch the nuances she comparitively talks about.

Alison wrote: "Lolita contains some very controversial subject matter. If you don't feel comfortable reading about it, I say skip it as well. It's only a portion of the book, and I think you can still get a lot..."

To Katri and Alison; I completely understand where you are coming from Katri, I haven't picked up Lolita for exactly those same feelings and while I read this book all the way through and understand her comparisons I was saddened by the descriptions of Humbert's writing. It's probably the one book on her list that I can take as an 'I'll take your word for it appeal' and I think she explains enough of it that I won't feel compelled to read the actually literary work myself. I'm not sure I can handle reading it. I did however understand her references to the women in the group and felt the same helplessness and heartache for their situation and weeped for those that were unable to remove themselves from that situation much as I would've weeped for a Lolita's helplessness as well.

My previous comment about being anxious to read the authors is valid with the exception of Humbert. I have a tendency to internalize what I'm reading and I have an acute sensitivity to man's inhumanity to man and especially to children. As it is I had trouble not crying through that section understanding the book they described and the comparisons to their own conflict, and then thinking on where I was in the 80's and how my life was so completely happy and enjoyable in comparison.

It just made me sad. While I don't regret my childhood I realize how completely naive I can be in being American and being raised a bit sheltered in the sense that while I was aware of the Ayatollah and the Iran Contra affairs I had no idea what it was about then. Looking back on in now saddens me that I was doing cheers in pep squad when these women were being stripped of their identity and dignity as human beings. :( It just make me more aware of my blessings and makes me more grateful for what I have and where I am.

Dini wrote: "SPOILERS




Alison wrote: "One thing about this novel, I thought it was going to be primarily concerning their reading circle in the author's home, but I found only a small part of the novel actua..."

It's funny I actually remember loving Gatsby in High School only because my teacher was very 'Dead Poet's Society' worthy and was really big on symbolism. And while we read it as a class, I was the only one in the class able to answer his questions about the descriptions of Gatsby's library. I remember to this day my teacher asking me if I was ready for college because that was something that would propel me into college reader ranks. (while I didn't think it was that big a deal, I fell in love with that book on the spot and realized how much I loved literature with that description and was insensed that Gatsby's library was full of books with unbroken spines..lol... how can you love a book without braking the spine? And how could have a library that size and not read the books in it? I think ultimately I was jealous I'd always wanted that library.) So I was just as jazzed about the court scene and the defense of Gatby!! I loved this part of the book and was just as energetic in my defense as the girls.

Ahhhhh I'm going to have to read that book again as it was so long ago but I did love the descriptions and the symbolism and ultimately that book will forever represent a respect for literature that while I didn't quite understand in my youth, has grown exponentially as I've gotten older.