User talk:Pat8722: Difference between revisions

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Hello, Pat8722, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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Thanks for your recent enquiry. I've e-mailed you the information you requested.--File Éireann 11:29, 30 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You appear to be a Catholic and pro-life. So am I. Let me know if I can help you at any time.--File Éireann 11:31, 30 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

There is a full copy of the file available at User:Brendanconway/temporary. Let me know when you have finished viewing it so it can be re-deleted.--File Éireann 23:55, 30 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

"Category:Traditionalist Catholics and Category:Catholic Traditionalism are not the same thing. See Talk:Traditionalist Catholics "move article proposal". Why try to obfuscate and confuse things by trying to merge two distinct categories? pat8722 17:39, 19 January 2006 (UTC)"[reply]

See WP:FAITH and WP:ATTACK. --Samuel J. Howard 11:15, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm rather confused by where you have voted "keep, but move to a list." Are you trying to say that a list article should be maintained in lieu of a category? In that case, you should be voting "listify and delete," to create a list article based on the entries in the category, and then to delete the category after that list has been created. Please remember that delete decisions on CFD are only about whether a category of a certain title and organizing principle should be kept, not a decision as to whether any information should be documented on Wikipedia at all. This is one reason why your "censorship" claims are particularly out of place there. Postdlf 20:31, 19 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This conversation is continued on Postdlf's talk page. pat8722 21:28, 19 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 19:13, 21 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A mere vote has absolutely no place/no relevance on this page. This page is for discussion/consensus building. If you feel the information should be deleted, tell us why... pat8722 22:20, 23 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Shh.... admins know that and would have ignored his "vote". Some people think they can just vote and have it matter. You're just goading him to provide justification, which he'll do now that you've challenged him.Yeago 03:08, 24 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You will need to ask the admin who closed it, not me, why he chose to do so. Also, if you disagree with the descision, and it certainly appears that you do, your next step would be to take the action to Wikipedia:Deletion review, which is the location for such things. - TexasAndroid 18:44, 24 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Huh? Were articles actually deleted? I see no sign of this. If true, that would be a major violation. However a spot check of several of the articles from the category shows they still exist. So I'm not sure what you are now saying has happened. - TexasAndroid 19:16, 24 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This conversation is continued on TexasAndroid's talk page. pat8722 01:23, 25 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, there is a bit of a debacle occuring in relation to bisexual allegations in Tyrone Power's article- I would appreciate your viewpoint at Wikipedia:Mediation_Cabal/Cases/2006-03-03_Tyrone_Power. Thanks Arniep 16:01, 11 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please stop re-adding material to my talk page, unless you have something new to say William M. Connolley 11:33, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Repeated, with a caution regarding WP:NPA which can get you blocked again William M. Connolley 14:32, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As you have been spending so much time on the vandalism page lately, I am sure you saw that removing warnings such as No Personal Attacks (WP:NPA, above) constitutes a form of vandalism. KillerChihuahua^?!? 18:15, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not remove warnings from your talk page or replace them with offensive content. Blanking your talk page will not remove the warnings from the page history. If you continue to blank your talk page, you will lose your privilege of editing your talk page. Thanks. JoshuaZ 19:47, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is your last warning. Removing warnings from your talk page is considered vandalism. You will be blocked from editing Wikipedia and your talk page will be protected from editing if you do it again. JoshuaZ 19:53, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please refer me to the policy that says unfounded warnings cannot be removed from talk pages. Unfounded warnings are vandalism are they not? The dispute with connelley began when he blocked me for removing vandalism from the Libertarianism page. See the discussion at Wikipedia:Vandalism (April 2006) at paragraph "what does 'nonsense' mean?" and see the Talk:Libertarianism page at "the most accurate definition should be used" (March 2006), and see ‎User talk:William M. Connolley's talk page (he does lots of deletes, so you may have to really look hard for it). I did not lodge a personal attack against connelley in accusing him of abusing his admin powers, I merely stated fact, so his complaint on my talk page was itself nonsense, and subject to deletion under the wikipedia: vandalism policy. You have got to look at "what happened" to determine "who" is the vandal, and you are merely siding with "a friend", without performing "fact checking". Anyway, for those who come here, at present there is no reasonable way to prevent vandalism on the libertarian page. The definition of libertarianism is " Libertarianism is a political philosophy advocating the right of individuals to be free to do whatever they wish with their person or property, as long it allows others the same liberty. Another way to state this is, 'Libertarianism is a moral and political philosophy under which the individual is free to do whatever he wishes with his person or property, as long as whatever he wishes to do with his person or property allows others to do whatever they wish with their person or property, respectively.' This includes not initiating, or threatening to initiate, physical force against those who have not violated this doctrine, nor fraud against anyone. Libertarianism has as it's predicate that no one want to be physically forced, or threatened with physical force, or defrauded." Should any reader wish to join me in reverting from the CIRCULAR (i.e. NONSENSE) definitions of RJII, Serge Issakov, Rhobite, and DocGov, please post here. At present, it appears to be a matter of whose got the most reverting power, as to whether or not NONSENSE can be removed from wikipedia without 3rr blocking. pat8722 20:22, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please see Talk page vandalism in Wikipedia:Vandalism#Types of vandalism. My interpretation of that paragraph is that it would be bad form, and grounds for assuming bad faith on your part, for you to remove any warnings from your talk page while a dispute is ongoing, and for some time afterwards. -- Donald Albury^(Talk) 21:08, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please read m:Don't be a dick (In this case we can mean dick to mean head louse rather than penis), so give it a break, please. It is boring. — Dunc|☺ 21:00, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If I delete the above profanity, I have no doubt JoshuaZ will block me from editing my own talk page; that's probably why it was put there. We can certainly see the character of my opposition. I am trying to find out how to stop JoshuaZ from blocking me, or how to revert his block if he does, and am relatively new to wikipedia. Any pointers would be appreciated. pat8722 21:32, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, you've been here for four months, so I'd gather you'd've run across this issue before. Also, given that the DBAD link left by Dunc is a standard Wikipedia "advice" ref, calling it obscentity seems a bit silly. •Jim62sch• 01:03, 9 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, I'm not an admin. The simplest way of handling this is to not modify your talk page when people say things you don't like or when they come from people you don't like. JoshuaZ 21:39, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You wouldn't have threatened me with blocking me from editing my own talk page unless you had an admin crony ready to do so. As I stated, I have no doubt you would have your crony block me if I reverted the above profanity. I still do not see the means for preventing the abuse of those who follow all wikipedia rules, by those who want to change wikipedia policy regarding vandalism,and to vandalize talk pages. pat8722 21:49, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest you calmly and rationally attempt to discuss the changes you want on the relevant talk page of libertarionism. Try a bit more of that and it might lead somewhere. Typing in all caps and making complains about "cabals" and "admin cronies" doesn't accomplish anything. JoshuaZ 21:59, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You just repeatedly prove you have not investigated anything. As stated above, all you would have to do is review the discussion at Wikipedia:Vandalism (April 2006) at paragraph "what does 'nonsense' mean?" and the Talk:Libertarianism page at "the most accurate definition should be used" (March 2006), and User talk:William M. Connolley's talk page, and you would know that everything has been discussed and everything I have alleged is true. You deal with generalities, not facts, so there is really no point to your further comments. It is unfortunate that we now require grammarians to tell us what "nonsense" means, but hopefully they will contribute at Wikipedia:Vandalism as they have been asked to do. pat8722 22:08, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Notice please that I said "a bit more of that" which generally implies more of the same. And as I remarked earlier, what is nonsense has nothing to do with grammarians anyways. You may want to read among other things wikilawyering. JoshuaZ 22:19, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A brief stroll through WP:CIVIL mightn't be a bad idea either. And from a common-sense perspective, the "crony" comment probably wasn't the wisest thing you could have written •Jim62sch• 01:05, 9 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In general, users are encouraged not to remove warnings from their talk page or even to selectively remove critical comments. Restoring the warnings is not considered vandalism on Wikipedia. Nevertheless, I do not intend to revert again; you may decide how you wish to respond to the apparently numerous complaints against your behavior. — Knowledge Seeker দ 05:02, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

[02]:The nastiness/vandalism on my talk page is caused by "piling on", such as you did, which is really evidence of the bad behavior wikipedia presently permits. Were you a "knowledge seeker", you would have read the talk pages at [[Talk: Wikipedia:Vandalism]] (April 2006) at paragraph "what does 'nonsense' mean?" and the Talk:Libertarianism page at "the most accurate definition should be used" (March 2006), and User talk:William M. Connolley's talk page, before involving yourself in the dispute, and would have contributed constructively on those pages.pat8722 15:06, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I see no evidence of vandalism on your talk page. In addition, the "piling on" you describe seems to be caused be your poor interactions and lack of civility with other editors; as you encounter other editors, you draw them into your conflict. Certainly the hostility you seem to be displaying now will provoke, not assuage, conflict. But in any case, it is not my concern. Just because I seek knowledge doesn't mean I seek it indiscriminately. I am not involved in your libertarianism dispute; I don't believe I have ever read or edited the article, and I have no idea what the nature of your argument is with the other editors. Nor am I interested. While I might gain some marginal knowledge by reading those talk pages, there are other far more productive ways for me to seek knowledge and I doubt I would gain much by contributing. I find no value to involving myself in your dispute. If this is how you interact with other editors, you will find it difficult to get your point across. — Knowledge Seeker দ 19:05, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

[04]You make no sense. If you didn't read the related pages which triggered the "piling on" by "friends of friends" resulting in the profanity on my talk page, you are just doing more "mindless piling on" of your own. Since you say you didn't have the time to investigate the related pages, you had no business "piling on". pat8722 22:37, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry I'm not being clear. I noticed the edits while doing recent changes patrol. I saw an editor removing warnings from several administrators, and so reverted the change. I feel the edit was mindless nor inappropriate. What precisely do you mean by "piling on"? That I should not have restored the warning since there were several others already restoring the warnings? I do think that your strong and sustained reaction to a single edit is unusual and a bit disturbing. — Knowledge Seeker দ 22:50, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

[06]"Piling on" means doing reverts or issuing warnings without investigating the claims that the reverts were reverts of vandalism, which warnings made in bad faith and against wiki rules are.pat8722

I see. I was unfamiliar with this definition of "piling on". In that case, no I was not piling on; I did investigate your claim of vandalism but I see no evidence of vandalism on your talk page. I don't believe any of the warnings were made in bad faith, nor do I see that they were against Wikipedia rules. Even if so, I cannot see how they could qualify for any of the criteria at Wikipedia:Vandalism. — Knowledge Seeker দ 23:48, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

[08]But at paragraph 3, you said you didn't, and I believe you at paragraph 3.pat8722 23:54, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I seem to be a bit confused. As far as I can tell, you are discussing two types of vandalism. I see that you've been discussing with other editors something about circular logic and nonsense being vandalism. That's the area I didn't look into, and that's why I said I was unaware of the details of your argument with the other editors when I mentioned it in my second reply. As I understand it, the vandalism you recently mentioned to me was vandalism on your talk page, in the form of warnings placed on your talk page. This of course I did investigate, and as I noted then and more recently, I see no evidence of vandalism on your talk page. — Knowledge Seeker দ 00:40, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You are not confused, Knowledge Seeker, not even a bit. --Serge 00:44, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Like you just said, the area you didn't look into is the area I had alleged shows I was reverting vandalism, and warnings against reverting vandalism, are vandalism. You didn't investigate what was necessary to determine whether the warnings on my page were warranted, therefore you merely "piled on".pat8722 01:59, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"...warnings against reverting vandalism, are vandalism." I believe this statement to be inaccurate and inconsistent with Wikipedia:Vandalism. Your claim that not "[investigating] what was necessary to determine whether the warnings on my page were warranted" is piling on is inconsistent with your earlier statement that "doing reverts...without investigating claims that the reverts were reverts of vandalism" is piling on. If the former, then yes, I was piling on, since I did not investigate whether the warnings were warranted. If the latter, then no, I was not piling on, since I reverted while investigating your claim that such your reverts were reverts of vandalism. In either case, I'm not certain I see how this is important. — Knowledge Seeker দ 02:13, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Warnings against reverting vandalism, are vandalism, and it is "piling on" to assist in keeping unwarranted warnings on a talk page. You have no interest in truth, and you are really wasting your time on my talk page.pat8722 02:46, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You are welcome to use your own definition of vandalism if you like, but don't expect that I will use it in that sense or that Wikipedia policy will use it in that sense. You feel the warnings were unwarranted; the administrators who left them feel they were warranted. So perhaps I was piling on, according to your idiosyncratic definition. If by no interest in truth you mean that I am not interested in determining whether you are correct in the arguments you have been making regarding libertarianism then you are correct. You are probably correct that I am wasting my time, but I do feel obligated to reply to complaints that people bring me. — Knowledge Seeker দ 03:13, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I use the term "vandalism" as it is defined on the Wikipedia:Vandalism page. And you agree that you "pile on", keeping badfaith warnings on talk pages without investing whether the warning was badfaith.pat8722 12:47, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Just which type of vandalism, as defined on that page, do you think has been committed against your talk page? -- Donald Albury^(Talk) 14:03, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As described above.pat8722 19:49, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As you are not answering my question, I guess that means you can't actually find what you call vandalism in the policy. Now, please stop calling things vandalism when you can't even cite what kind of vandalism they are. -- Donald Albury^(Talk) 23:25, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"The most common type of vandalism is the ... insertion ... nonsense". 3rr warnings for the reversion of vandalism is "nonsense", at best.pat8722 00:59, 13 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If you wish to convince me of that, perhaps you could quote the appropriate section, since I'm not seeing it. Yes, I agreed that I did not investigate the merit of the warnings; we discussed this several days ago. — Knowledge Seeker দ 16:32, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Convince you of what? And yes, we are agreed you "piled on". As you said, we've discussed this already.pat8722 19:49, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That that the edits you claim as vandalism are consistent with the term vandalism as it is used in Wikipedia. I guess I was unclear why you were telling me that when I already told it to you; I couldn't understand your purpose. But if you don't have any new points to make, then I will consider this matter resolved. — Knowledge Seeker দ 20:14, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"The most common type of vandalism is the ... insertion ... nonsense". Read the relevant pages, as cited above.pat8722 00:59, 13 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Don't be ridiculous. The "warnings against reverting vandalism" may be unwarranted but they certainly are not nonsense. — Knowledge Seeker দ 01:06, 13 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

please see the Talk:Pro-life activism page.--Andrew c 21:58, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Mainly because he can. There is some old history going back on this page Catholicism and Freemasonry. He will try to trap you on the 3RR rule, so please watch reverts.

JASpencer 19:36, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, my ears are burning... Imacomp 20:43, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]