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Lincoln cent mintage figures

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No evidence of any notability for this WP:NOTSTATS list, fails WP:LISTN. Fram (talk) 08:35, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Economics, Lists, and United States of America. Fram (talk) 08:35, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also nominated:

Merge with United States cent mintage figures as a WP:ATD. If that page is also non-notable it should be added to the deletion. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 10:36, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As the creator, it should be noted that I split this article off from United States cent mintage figures per WP:SIZESPLIT. I have no preference for deleting or keeping the article, so long as the same is done to United States cent mintage figures. However, I am opposed to merging it back into the parent article. - ZLEA _T\^C 12:32, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I've added United States cent mintage figures to the nomination! Fram (talk) 13:23, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rusty Shoop

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Another dime-a-dozen TV weatherman article, with hardly any content since its 2008 creation that fails to establish why subject is notable. Sources before and after death are primary, with no viable third-party coverage. 💥Casualty ^{• Hop along. •} 08:23, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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List of entertainment events at the Golden 1 Center

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the Golden 1 Center (2nd nomination)

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. Significant referencing problems. mikeblas (talk) 15:17, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: These three sources (all independent, secondary, and reliable) collate entries of this list topic together as a group, thus satisfying WP:NLIST criteria. Left guide (talk) 21:32, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
These are just schedules (and they only cover 2024), so they don't satisfy WP:NLIST because they're not significant coverage. -- mikeblas (talk) 17:22, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You have a point; I hadn't previously inspected the sources in that manner, but now I have. In that light, delete. Left guide (talk) 23:24, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting, already at AFD so not eligible for Soft Deletion,
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List of entertainment events at the Olimpiyskiy Stadium

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the Olimpiyskiy Stadium (2nd nomination)

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. No inclusion criteria, very weak referencing. mikeblas (talk) 14:43, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisting comment: Relisting, already at AFD so not eligible for Soft Deletion,
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List of entertainment events at AsiaWorld–Expo

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at AsiaWorld–Expo (2nd nomination)

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. mikeblas (talk) 14:37, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting, already at AFD so not eligible for Soft Deletion,
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:28, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of entertainment events at Liverpool Arena

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at Liverpool Arena (2nd nomination)

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. mikeblas (talk) 14:34, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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List of entertainment events at Movistar Arena (Buenos Aires)

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at Movistar Arena (Buenos Aires) (2nd nomination)

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. Contains only events since the end of 2019, only concerts. Completely unreferenced. mikeblas (talk) 14:28, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting, already at AFD so not eligible for Soft Deletion,
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List of entertainment events at Central Harbourfront Event Space

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at Central Harbourfront Event Space (2nd nomination)

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. Weakly defined inclusion criteria. mikeblas (talk) 14:19, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting, already at AFD so not eligible for Soft Deletion,
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:26, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of entertainment events at Civic Arena (Pittsburgh, PA)

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at Civic Arena (Pittsburgh, PA) (2nd nomination)

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. Weakly defined inclusion criteria. mikeblas (talk) 14:05, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Why isn't the list notable as a group? There are other arenas of similar size listed that have similar lists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Lists_of_events_by_venue Jasonstru (talk) 17:22, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisting comment: Relisting, already at AFD so not eligible for Soft Deletion,
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List of entertainment events at the Toyota Center

AfDs for this article:

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex

Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the Toyota Center (2nd nomination)

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Fails WP:NLIST overall, as the content of the list is not notable as a group. Seems to fail WP:NOTDB. mikeblas (talk) 13:51, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting, already at AFD so not eligible for Soft Deletion,
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Yonas Maynas

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not reliable article per WP:BIO or General Notability Moarnighar (talk) 13:28, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment The nominator is currently under ANI review for questionable editing behavior. -- GreenC 17:25, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Cai Haojian

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Played a couple of minutes in the Chinese Super League, as well as a loan in the third league. Sources are WP:ROUTINE and I don't see anything else that can help it pass. Geschichte (talk) 07:22, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Kang Dong-gu

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Short career in the K-league, some games in semi-pro lower divisions. Geschichte (talk) 07:19, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Ahn Seok-ho

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No indication of meeting WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT, tagged as BLP lacking sources for 15 years. PROD has been tried before. Geschichte (talk) 07:19, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 00:50, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Evelina Bertoli

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Fails WP:SPORTCRIT. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 08:14, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment: I added several citations to the stub-article, and some content. There are dozens more articles at OAsport (it) over several years. I think she medalled 2nd in a 2020 championship [1], and another. On quick look, it seems she was the highest ranking rider for the Italy eventing team at Paris 2024, and you don't get to the Olympics unless you already have a good competition record. I'll take a closer look later when I have more time. ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 15:53, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting, User:Grorp are you arguing to Keep this article?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:49, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Dealing with Italian-only articles has been difficult, but I was able to find out some more information which I added to the article. From what I was able to find and understand, I would say that Bertoli likely meets notability standards regardless of my amateur attempts at rummaging through Italian articles. Still probably rated as a stub-level article, it is much improved over the version that was AfD'd. [2] ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 06:15, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting, please review changes to the article since its nomination.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:19, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jennie (dog)

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Not inherently notable, happy to merge with Steve Darling. Bringing to AFD as I'm not sure if I'm missing something that makes this notable enough for it's own article. Lordseriouspig 07:49, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The sources aren't discussing Jennie independently from Steve Darling. There's not much to merge either, since the main points are already covered in that article. hinnk (talk) 08:29, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Animal, Politics, and England. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 10:49, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete/merge Not independently notable from Steve Darling. Reywas92^Talk 14:22, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, as article creator- I'm not strongly opposed to a merge but I created a separate article because the level of sustained media coverage over time is indicative of independent notability, e.g. this Sky News segment from two days ago in which she was the primary focus- most media focus is very much primarily focused on Jennie, rather than primarily focused on Steve Darling and discussing her only as an aside. Chessrat ^{(talk, contributions)} 17:06, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete/merge This doesn't feel like the subject of a separate page, and it's unlikely to be expandable either without resorting to puffery. --gilgongo (talk) 06:30, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"She is not the first guide dog to serve in Westminster, as House of Lords members Baron Blunkett and Baron Holmes of Richmond also use guide dogs in the chamber.[4]"

where is the wiki page for themTravelrisk (talk) 14:47, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Agreed with the above that there is nothing to show that she has any notability of her own, independent of her owner, and as all of the main points are covered already in Steve Darling's article, there is no need for a merge. I have no objections to having it Redirect to Steve Darling as well, if others think that would be useful. Rorshacma (talk) 16:18, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
She is jennie the dog. It is enough to warrant a page on her own. Benocalla2 (talk) 18:39, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. Without more support for Keep, the options here are Deletion or Merger. Let's give this discussion a few more days.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:47, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:18, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Steve Darling]. Although the sources on Jennie are good and they seem to meet WP:GNG, there isn't much content to warrant a separate article. She is adequately covered in the Steve Darling article, which can be expanded if more information about her becomes available.DesiMoore (talk) 20:49, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Doesn't matter if sources aren't discussing Jennie independently from Steve Darling as long they are mentioning Jennie. Article meets GNG and recieves independent coverage. No gain to the project by deleting, doesn't violate any policies. Maybe eventually she'll get as much coverage as Larry (cat), but the coverage she gets currently is more than enough to warrant an article DimensionalFusion (talk ▪ she/her) 14:08, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Ruane (poker player)

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Fails WP:SPORTCRIT. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 13:02, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Succeeds WP:BLP1E and quite possibly also WP:SPORTCRIT with two major cashes let alone being at the final table of the Main Event (the world's biggest poker tournament). PsychoticIncall (talk) 11:29, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Kristian P. Lusardi

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Fails WP:SPORTCRIT or WP:CRIMINAL. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 13:00, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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~~Move~~ to Christian Lusardi and leave a redirect. More sources available when you search for his "other" name - Christian Lusardi. PsychoticIncall (talk) 11:54, 15 September 2024 (UTC) (I'm striking your duplicate vote as I assume the most recent one is your current opinion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:35, 17 September 2024 (UTC))[reply]

PsychoticIncall, "Move" is not a possible AFD closure as it is an editing decision. If you are interested in that outcome, you have to vote to "Keep" and then have a Move discussion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:29, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Plenty of sources at his "other" name. PsychoticIncall (talk) 11:36, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Clapton Kibonge

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Declined G4. Article was previously deleted under a different name at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mugisha Emmanuel. Subject does not seem notable enough for a standalone article, at least not at this time, and clearly fails WP:NACTOR. CycloneYoris ^talk! 05:53, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Fails WP:GNG, WP:NACTOR, and WP:CREATIVE. He lacks significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions and has no significant coverage on his projects as a film writer, director, nor producer. — YoungForever^(talk) 15:50, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Show (band)

AfDs for this article:

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No appearance of notability. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 05:11, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom and WP:GNG. Lots of information here, but trying to verify any of it turns up crickets. Article was written by a 1-edit SPA apparently to promote a 2016 tour, and has remained essentialy unchanged ever since—except for adding even more promotional material, this time in support of a new venture involving the band's front men. StonyBrook _babble 12:57, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. Already at AFD so not eligible for Soft Deletion.
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Visakhapatnam Metro

AfDs for this article:

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Never actually took implementation stages. Politician dream. WP:TOOSOON. No developments from a very long time. Also this article says no metro to Visakhapatnam.- https://www.deccanchronicle.com/nation/politics/040821/no-vizag-vijayawada-metro-rail-for-now.html. Thewikizoomer (talk) 05:10, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lots of speculations within the article as well. Thewikizoomer (talk) 05:11, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. Already at AFD so Soft Deletion is not an option,
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:50, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Vijayawada Metro

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Never actually took implementation stages. Politician dream. WP:TOOSOON. No developments from a very long time. Thewikizoomer (talk) 05:07, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also this article says no metro to Vijayawada. Thewikizoomer (talk) 05:08, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lots of speculations within the article as well. Thewikizoomer (talk) 05:11, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Next Manipur Legislative Assembly election

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Deleted in May, recreated and speedy deletion refused on basis of "new" sourcing. However, the sourcing in the article does not indicate anything of substance about the next election. The Hindu article simply notes a quote from one politican saying they should win the 2027 election. Sangai Express has nothing. North East Today quotes a politican indicating they will field candidates in 2027. Simple evidence that an election will occur in future is not enough to satisfy notability criteria. At this point, fails WP:NEVENT, WP:GNG and WP:CRYSTAL. Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 04:18, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, Politics, and Manipur. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:23, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete It’s a future event which has no set date, but which is possibly years away, with no absolutely set candidates, and nothing but guesswork in sources.

Absurdum4242 (talk) 17:42, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisting comment: Relisting. Already at AFD before so Soft Deletion is not an option.
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How to $ell Your Wargame Design

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I believe this article fails WP:NBOOK. Aside from the one source listed in the article, a detailed search shows no other coverage of this book. If that one source wasn't listed, it would be hard to prove this book even exists. SJD Willoughby (talk) 04:54, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge/redirect to Lou Zocchi per Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Alternatives to deletion. The only source I could find was this review in Space Gamer. A second source would allow the book to meet Wikipedia:Notability (books)#Criteria.
A redirect with the history preserved under the redirect will allow editors to selectively merge any content that can be reliably sourced to the target article. A redirect with the history preserved under the redirect will allow the redirect to be undone if significant coverage in reliable sources is found in the future. Cunard (talk) 10:24, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Lou Zocchi per above. PARAKANYAA (talk) 00:11, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Navaratnalu

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Looks like a complete advertisement. Complete promotional, appears to be a political advertisement done in favour of a political party and its leader.

Looks like a pamphlet for the political party. Thewikizoomer (talk) 04:30, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Melvin Storer

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Being mistakenly reported killed during the attack on Pearl Harbor doesn't make this sailor notable (unless he was supposedly killed by the Germans). Clarityfiend (talk) 02:48, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak delete as WP:BIO1E, despite some coverage. Mztourist (talk) 05:28, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Yes non-notable person. Xegma(talk) 06:21, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep or Redirect coverage passes GNG: The Oregon Daily Journal 2 3, The Oregonian 2, Herald and News ~~and also meets WP:ANYBIO with the Asiatic–Pacific Campaign Medal. 1~~ but also a case of WP:BIO1E. The Attack on Pearl Harbor could be an appropriate place for a redirect, but the subject does have enough WP:SIGCOV at Newspapers.com to justify a standalone article.

Filmforme (talk) 06:52, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A low-level decoration does not confer notability. Only the Medal of Honor, Victoria Cross, or multiple second-level awards do that. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:06, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Literally millions of Americans were awarded the Asiatic–Pacific Campaign Medal. Best, GPL93 (talk) 12:25, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for clarifying. What about the Bronze Star? Filmforme (talk) 15:45, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is not a blanket campaign level medal, but still well below the ANYBIO line which is generally the highest military honor awarded by the subject's nation. Additionally, it appears he was not actually awarded the Bronze Star Medal but rather had bronze service stars on his campaign medal which denote how many specific operations or campaigns participated in within the overall Pacific campaign. Best, GPL93 (talk) 16:01, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:BIO1E. Best, GPL93 (talk) 12:25, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Passes WP:GNG. He was involved in two events: the attack on Pearl Harbor and the salvage effort (which I consider deserves its own article even though it has not got one). WP:BIO1E is a guideline that provides advice but does not trump WP:SUMMARY, which says that sections of long articles can be spun off into their own articles. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:32, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

He didn’t play a notable role in either event, though. And it is still an event and the aftermath of the event. All we have is quick (1-2 paragraph) snippets in local newspapers (ie: "local man re-enlists") except for his mistakenly being reported dead for six days (which still garnered only local coverage). This was incredibly common at the time. Best, GPL93 (talk) 01:35, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete An ordinary sailor, doing ordinary things.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 04:47, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have been updating the article, including more information I've found at Newspapers.com. There's no question the subject passes WP:GNG, but it is my observation that some may not agree of the reason why he was written about, and not that this isn't a notable topic according to WP:NEXIST.

Storer was not the only one who was considered lost in the attack and later found alive. But it should be noted that his family and home state of Oregon was not notified he survived for weeks, only after they had a funeral service involving Portland's Mayor. The ordeal of Storer initially being lost during a heavily covered historic event is what likely triggered the WP:SIGCOV from media once it turned out he had survived. In addition, he has a first hand account and unique perspective of his own experience, and his involvement with the salvage afterwards.

As for WP:BIO1E, this is a unique case and I agree with @Hawkeye7 that Attack on Pearl Harbor is a long article to consider a redirect. The subject meets WP:NBASIC, though a shorter article covering Storer and others in similar circumstances would be suitable too. WP:PSEUDO applies here and there is coverage on the subject unrelated to the attack: to their expertise as a diver searching for people that were believed to have drowned. 1 2 3 –Filmforme (talk) 22:50, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Rather routine military career (that is rather briefly described here) and after the war doesn't seem to be much more notable. Reported as passing away Pearl Harbour, then surviving is more of a trivia item than a notable item for wikipedia. Oaktree b (talk) 01:02, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: A lot of additional sourcing was added since this article's nomination. I'd appreciate editors reviewing the article now.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:45, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jeremy Curl

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/Jeremy curl

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Lack of notability Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 02:37, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Authors, Photography, Japan, and England. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 02:45, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete yes mostly the sections are unsourced. Xegma(talk) 03:52, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Have added sources and more about his recent film on AppleTV 31.217.244.67 (talk) 14:42, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 02:53, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting, a lot of content was added to this article after its nomination. Could editors review the additions?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:27, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GTC FX

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It does not meet the notability guideline for companies. Some of the sources in the article are questionable. Frost 03:15, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Finance, Companies, and United Arab Emirates. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:10, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - does not meet NCORP — MaxnaCarta ( 💬 • 📝 ) 06:42, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - as said above, does not meet WP:NCORP Mia ^{a data witch (chat)} 12:22, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Other competitors already have their own entries. User:Martinolau 16:17, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mister Venezuela 2005

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A beauty pageant that fails WP:NEVENT. All sourcing is from either the pageant organizer or from bellezavenezolana.net. My analysis that this is a self published source has found at least one other editor in concurrence at RSN. Best to WP:TNT and start over if any good sources exist; my Spanish skills are nil and I haven't been able to find them. The article used to have more sources but they were invariably blogs and other SPS material. Here is a link to the prior revision before they were removed. ☆ Bri (talk) 03:11, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am also nominating the following related page because of basically the same sourcing issue (save for two citations attesting that one of the contestants is gay):

Signed for bundling ☆ Bri (talk) 03:17, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, Beauty pageants, and Venezuela. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:20, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Per above!. No independent coverage in RS. Alon9393 (talk) 16:54, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 03:02, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Death of Alberto Fujimori

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Single event, unlikely to garner more details (that would arguably add to the lack of notability of the event), already covered in Fujimori's page. Fails WP:1E, WP:GNG. Cabrils (talk) 02:44, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politicians, Events, and Peru. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:21, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete pointless stub. No scope for expansion and not even worth redirecting IMV. Mccapra (talk) 05:57, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep and expand It is highly notable, but just needs an expansion. dunno if a convict will have a state funeral, but that is notable iniself.Sportsnut24 (talk) 05:58, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

:Keep and wait it's likely that the consequences of Fujimori's death will be notable; he will be getting a state funeral per El País and there will be more to come. If by the end of the seven days there's nothing notable that's happened, then I'll change my vote. Jaguarnik (talk) 07:01, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Completely sufficient to cover this in the main article. Violates WP:NOTNEWS. Having a state funeral (or not) is in no way a reason for a content fork. Geschichte (talk) 07:10, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The man has just died, there's little point in nominating the article now, how big the event will be is WP:CRYSTAL. Besides, the article passes WP:GNG and the funeral itself and its aftermath are yet to happen. I would like to point out that this isn’t just any state funeral; this was one of if not the most influential figure in Peruvian politics and across Latin America. Abcmaxx (talk) 07:58, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: The guy may be influential, but the circumstances of death doesn't really ring much. If it were an extraordinary COD it may have passed GNG. As for the funeral it is WP:CRYSTAL. Borgenland (talk) 08:34, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Keepwithout prejudice to re-nominating later or userfying if it turns out there's not much to say.~~

In my experience, these notnews/crystal deletions are typically pointless -- the news keeps rolling in, and the article gets edited, until it's clear whether it's notable. The deletion rationale seems simple at the front end, but trying to discuss notability as new articles get added daily is like trying to sweep back the tides ("relisting, anyone care to comment on the new sources identified above?")

merge to Alberto Fujimori. Very little of note was reported around his funeral; it appears no attendance or accolades from world leaders; nothing significant surrounding the event itself. Oblivy (talk) 09:11, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as per Jaguarnik's article assuring a state funeral. It’s not just the death, it’s the event, and who shows up. All will be reported. Hyperbolick (talk) 09:48, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Completely sufficient to cover this in the main article. --UpEpSilon (talk) 10:17, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: And Wait. Let's see how this story develops Warm Regards, Miminity (talk) (contribs) 14:39, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Main article can easily cover this. "Death of [Person]" articles do not need to exist separately from biographical articles that the person already had — they're created only where the death itself is a notable event but the person was not independently notable enough to get a conventional biographical article at all, meaning that they exist instead of a biographical article about the dead person, not as a supplement to a biographical article about the dead person. The deaths of already-notable people with biographical articles are covered in the biographical article, not in separate death-of spinoffs. Bearcat (talk) 14:44, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Although there's WP:SIGCOV, Fujimori already has an article. There's no need for a second one detailing his death - all new information can be added to the main article.--DesiMoore (talk) 15:56, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge/delete Yet another absurd rush to create separate and redundant pages. Add content to Alberto Fujimori#Illness and death, then propose a split if there's sufficient content. The main article also has a whole Legacy section that would cover how people react to his death. If you think the main article is too long, move other content to the several existing subarticles rather than jumping to make another. Reywas92^Talk 17:07, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep as there is in fact scope for expansion and Fujimori was a notable political figure. Jang317 (talk) 18:46, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Notable political figures who already had biographical articles do not get their deaths spun off to separate "death of notable figure" articles — "Death of X" articles exist only for people who were not already notable in life so that the death itself is their entire basis for notability, and people who were already notable in life have their deaths covered in the biographical article rather than in a separate content fork. Bearcat (talk) 22:35, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is this meant to be opinion or a statement of policy/guidelines/consensus? There many articles, for example Death and state funeral of Ruhollah Khomeini, Death of Li Keqiang, Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II and so on, for people who were extremely notable in life. I'm not arguing for WP:OTHER, but I genuinely wonder if what you are saying is a policy, guideline, or even a consensus in the community.

N.B. [[Category:Deaths and funerals of politicians]] appears to support my point above about apparent lack of consensus for the position that these articles are not for people who were famous in life. Oblivy (talk) 22:53, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep – An event that had repercussions throughout South America. Svartner (talk) 10:15, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge/delete - Death by old age is not unusual, its not like an assassination or a suicide. Reactions to his death are better included at his own article to boost the Legacy section to tell us what impact he had - these reactions are not to his death but to him as a person (whether positive or negative). While there will be a state funeral, it does not seem like the type of long-term ceremonies that were held for people like Queen Elizabeth II (like at Death and state funeral of Elizabeth II). So most of this content is either already in the bio article or can be easily merged, and a separate article is unnecessary. --Masem (t) 12:25, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as a separate article for the death of a state leader feels unnecessary. Unless more specific information is released that deems this article to be noteworthy, the information presented within this article would fit best with the original Alberto Fujimori article.--Ch3sp1n13 (talk) 10:11, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Article has been sufficiently expanded. Ian P. Tetriss (talk) 00:46, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge - Article does seem relevant, however the fact that it died by old age it’s not notable and the funeral and aftermath can be easily merged in the main article. Protoeus (talk) 01:28, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, expanded. RodRabelo7 (talk) 01:59, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Article now renamed by me to Death and state funeral of Alberto Fujimori. State funeral has happened. Hyperbolick (talk) 02:26, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy keep The death of a notorious president. ArionStar (talk) 07:25, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - A important event. Many other "Death of ____" articles exist. This isn't just the death of a random diplomat. It is the former President of Peru, who is notorious. Wheatley2 (speak to me) (watch me) 09:01, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete – Sure he was famous/infamous/notorious but I don't see anything about his death that merits its own article. ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email) 09:53, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge / Delete The manner of his death was not newsworthy in itself, the funeral will be covered, but IMHO doesn’t need its own page when it can be used to cap off the main page about him instead.

Absurdum4242 (talk) 17:45, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep : I think this a Wikipedia-worthy article. The death of a president, in this case an authoritarian leader who had a lot of controversies while he ruled seems like a notable topic to me. Similarly, the future events as regards his funeral is also something to look out for given his legacies. Instead of a deletion nomination, I’ll suggest the article is kept and developed as more eventful information unfolds.additional comment the funeral held already but I’ll still retain my ‘keep-vote’.

Mevoelo (talk) 02:34, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep death of a famous president and public figure, as well as his state funeral Scuba 14:51, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Everyone's making crap up again. There is no guideline that says state funerals are entitled to standalone articles. The content about the president's death can be covered in the president's own article. Reywas92^Talk 20:04, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, the state funeral itself is a significant event for a controversial autocrat. Altorespite 🌿 18:31, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting this discussion. While we have had great participation here, almost every editor is focusing on the wrong question, whether or not you, as a person, think this event "deserves" an article. That factor is not important here. We assess discussions based on policies that are relevant and just as importantly, what reliable sources support. This article has been expanded since its nomination but I see no editors providing a review of the sources. This is what is needed to determine its notability, not opinions on whether or not this is an important event. Also, please do not move this article during this AFD discussion, or closure tools, XFDcloser can't decipher what to do when the page title of the article is different from the one at the top of this discussion page.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:41, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge back into original article, leaving no redirect. Hey, a notable person (we went to the same university) dies; there is a funeral, etc. But that does not in any way justify a separate article about the guy dying. --Orange Mike | Talk 20:34, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. There's nothing notable about Fujimori's death. Most of the coverage just mentions that the guy died, with details being about his career, not the death or funeral. Cortador (talk) 21:14, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge 18 of the 39 sources discuss his funeral/national mourning in Peru, and 11 of the sources talk about the reactions to his death, so I would not say that the death lacks notable coverage, but his death was very ordinary and will not have sustained coverage; most of the details can be added to his article. Jaguarnik (talk) 21:29, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mark Diamond

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Questionable notability for Australian bureaucrat. Most sources discuss the RTBU rather than Diamond. Insufficient WP:RS to meet WP:ANYBIO. Cabrils (talk) 02:40, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople, Law, and Australia. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:22, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Profile is sufficing the WP:BLP and WP:Notability. As per the WRS, here's the link providing his mentions on multiple government official websites as well as on Parliament of New South Wales' official website. Article can be made concise rejecting the poorly sourced information. Here are the links below I have found during research validating his notability.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/rail-unions-given-24-hours-to-call-off-industrial-action-20220901-p5bepf.html

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/sep/06/sydney-train-strikes-union-boss-hopes-federal-intervention-puts-go-slow-on-nsw-government-action

https://www.rtbu.org.au/mark_diamond_appointed_as_new_rtbu_national_secretary

https://www.rtbu.org.au/who_s_who

https://www.actu.org.au/directory/rail-tram-and-bus-union-rtbu-national-office/

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/dominic-perrottet-told-to-call-gladys-berejiklian-as-rail-feud-continues/news-story/12176af725b86627d3612ee8ee0a7586

https://www.rtbu.org.au/national_council_2023_wrap

https://rtbuexpress.com.au/rtbu-owned-training-organisation/

https://www.rtbu.org.au/resignation_of_national_secretary_mark_diamond

https://www.railexpress.com.au/rtbu-appoints-new-national-secretary/

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/compromise-in-the-jobs-summit-confrontation-in-the-foyer-20220901-p5bemu.html

https://www.fullyloaded.com.au/rtbu-names-new-national-secretary/

https://www.busnews.com.au/rtbu-says-federal-budget-a-turning-point-in-public-transport-funding/

https://www.themandarin.com.au/198708-perrottet-and-rtbu-attend-summit-as-industrial-actions-continue/

https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/organisations/registered-orgs/139v-r2022-201.pdf

https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/Hansard/Pages/HansardResult.aspx#/docid/HANSARD-1820781676-96367

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/sep/01/dummy-spitting-nsw-government-gives-rail-union-24-hours-to-end-industrial-action

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-21/wallan-train-derailment-union-says-track-awaiting-maintenance/11987230

Tamaraharon (talk) 17:58, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

rtbu.org.au would be a primary source. LibStar (talk) 03:07, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. It would be helpful to get an assessment on this huge list of links so we know whether or not they are reliable. Tamaraharon, it would be helpful if you made this live, active links.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:33, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge and redirect to Australian Rail Tram and Bus Industry Union~~Delete~~ I had looked at this article when it was first listed, and found many of the sources identified by @Tamaraharon so this was quick work. Aside from the primary sources, these are mostly just Diamond being quoted in an article which I don't think qualifies for notability.

I see one source that qualifies for notability in the whole pile -- the Sydney Morning Herald article, #11 below -- which can be seen as significant and independent coverage from a major news outlet. The Guardian article #16 has a bit of editorial independence but it's really short - basically quoting him and then quoting someone reacting to him.

[3] - quoting MD only
[4] - quoting MD only
[5] - primary
[6] - primary
[7] - doesn't mention MD
[8] - quoting extensively with some editorial independence (but no independent reporting about Diamond)
[9] - primary
[10] - primary
[11] - primary
[12] - all material about him is from RBTU employee, lacks independence
[13] - independent, significant, about Diamond
[14] - same as railexpress.com.au article #10, lacks independence
[15] - quoting MD only
[16] - mention only
[17] - all material about him is from RBTU employee, lacks independence
[18] - quoting MD, plus very brief coverage
[19] - quoting MD only

Oblivy (talk) 13:39, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I highly doubt your assessment of sources because the pages that you published, you have cited primary sources, even press releases of the same company website. Here's the example Tam Jai Noodle#cite note-10 , Tam Jai Noodle#cite note-11, High Sierra Music Festival#cite note-2, High Sierra Music Festival#cite note-3. In fact, most of the sources in your pages are weakest and lack reliability so i believe your assessment of sources on Mark Diamond page is bias. Tamaraharon (talk) 17:17, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

According to WP:BIO which is the applicable notability guideline, an article needs to be supported by "significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject".

On the other hand, primary sources are explicitly allowed for articles even though they do not count for notability, per WP:PRIMARY: "Wikipedia articles should be based on reliable, published secondary sources, and to a lesser extent, on tertiary sources and primary sources".

I hope this is helpful.Oblivy (talk) 01:39, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Article should be converted to a stub using only independent reliable sources. This justifies WP:Notability. Chris.lee auth (talk) 18:04, 19 September 2024 (UTC)— Chris.lee auth (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Weak Keep: Primary sources usage does not consent lack of notability. Profile has moderate recognition on gov website of Parliament of New South Wales. Subject has historical relevance.

Rpgea (talk) 22:50, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Battle of Hemshin

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Fail to see how this is notable. Whole article is probably WP:SYNTH. Creator of this article conveniently added no pages for the citations, and when I looked into one of two of them (can't access the other, though it is likely the same case), I found no mention about this event [20]. I'm not surprised, since they also misused citations at Han–Xiongnu War (215 BC–200 BC) [21] [22] HistoryofIran (talk) 02:22, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, History, Military, and Turkey. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:11, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as per HistoryofIran, I read the references cited in the article, and could find absolutely no mention of either this battle, or of Hemshin itself. I had a good search and couldn’t find any other sources on it either - not a single mention of Hemshin / Hemşin anywhere for the early 1830s, battle or otherwise. Absurdum4242 (talk) 16:25, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as WP:SYNTH. Cannot find any mention of this either. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 17:50, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

52/17 rule

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This is primary research self-published in advertising blogs (WP:PRIMARY, WP:BLOGS). However, a couple of independent, non-scientific publications (The Atlantic, Washington Post; see refs 14 and 16 in article) picked it up and published their own short articles mentioning it, so I guess that notability is somewhat murky. Antispasm (talk) 02:07, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - I believe the above that this is all self-published content. I can't find any reliable source that takes this seriously. No employer is going to allow a 17 minute break after every 52 minutes. — Maile (talk) 03:16, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Psychology-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:12, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete all the sources are really only so so but they used a lot of academic articles in an attempt to make it appear legit. Also this is a first for me but there's a fake citation! Rosenbaum & Heidary 2014 is not a real article, if you follow the DOI it takes you to Vachon, Lynam, and Johnson 2014. If you Google the title of the article it only returns the 52/17 page. Dr vulpes (Talk) 06:18, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Rosenbaum, D. A.; Heidary, R. (2014). "The perilous lure of the multitasking myth". Journal of Experimental Psychology: General. 143 (2): 731–738. doi:10.1037/a0035236. PMID 24364745.
- Vachon, David D.; Lynam, Donald R.; Johnson, Jarrod A. (2014). "The (non)relation between empathy and aggression: Surprising results from a meta-analysis". Psychological Bulletin. 140 (3): 751–773. doi:10.1037/a0035236. ISSN 1939-1455.

Dr vulpes (Talk) 06:18, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Persikasa Sarolangun

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Fails WP:GNG guidelines, and I can find no non-passing coverage. Will retract if sources are found. Kingsmasher678 (talk) 01:49, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Organizations, Football, and Indonesia. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:12, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 18:48, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:53, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SouthSouthNorth

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Fails WP:NORG. No in-depth coverage in independent, reliable sources. C F A 💬 01:42, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Organizations, Environment, and South Africa. C F A 💬 01:43, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Richard Fontaine

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Despite being a prolific writer of op-eds and magazine articles, Fontaine is not himself the subject of any WP:SIGCOV in independent, reliable sources. (The closest example is a press release-based WP:ROUTINE article about his appointment as president of CNAS.) As a result, there's no pass of WP:GNG or WP:NBIO. No other SNGs appear to apply. Dclemens1971 (talk) 00:59, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Authors and Louisiana. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 02:25, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:29, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Impasse (comics)

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An incredibly minor fictional character that, from what I can tell, only appeared in one, single issue of a comic. The one non-primary source being used in the article simply summarizes the plot of that single appearance. Searches turned up absolutely nothing else, not even brief mentions, on the character in reliable sources. Even fan wikis like the Marvel Database don't have an entry on the character. The character is as completely non-notable as a fictional character can possibly be, and is a complete failure of the WP:GNG. Rorshacma (talk) 00:44, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements and Comics and animation. Rorshacma (talk) 00:44, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Merge & Redirect to List of Luke Cage and Iron Fist supporting characters due to lack of notability. The new article has her listed but she is one of the few characters without a description, which this merge can solve
SJD Willoughby (talk) 00:51, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I touched upon this in another similar AFD earlier today, but this particular case is a even bigger example of why a Merge to that article is improper. A throwaway adversary that appeared in one issue of a comic is not a "supporting character" of Iron Fist and Luke Cage. Listing the character on that page as if they were is outright misleading. Rorshacma (talk) 01:06, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That specific problem could be solved by choosing a different suitable merge target, List of Marvel Comics characters: I, or by changing the title of List of Luke Cage and Iron Fist supporting characters to simpler (and less ambiguous?) List of Luke Cage and Iron Fist characters. Either way would be fine with me. Daranios (talk) 15:25, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Regardless of where it is, a completely inconsequential character that made one single-issue appearance is too non-notable to be merged or mentioned anywhere. The very act of covering the character on Wikipedia in any capacity would create more notability for the character than actually exists. Rorshacma (talk) 16:25, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That is a different objection from "listing him under supporting characters is misleading". The fact that the character has received its own entry in the specialized Encyclopedia of Super-Villains (although that one differs somewhat in nature to our encyclopedia here) in my view gives him enough notability, obviously not for a stand-alone article, but for a two-sentence summary in a list. And that view is not based on personal evaluation of the primary material. It's also one common way lists work. And I don't see a benefit in not having this condensed information. Daranios (talk) 10:40, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete so non-notable we honestly don't even need a mention. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 00:57, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to List of Luke Cage and Iron Fist supporting characters. BOZ (talk) 01:14, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to List of Luke Cage and Iron Fist supporting characters. Does not seem notable in itself, but target can be improved by content based on a secondary source present here. Daranios (talk) 10:49, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete One-off characters aren't supporting characters and (generally) don't deserve a mention. – sgeureka ^t•c 12:15, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete This doesn't deserve a mention and editors wouldn't search for "Impasse (comics)" anyway. Jontesta (talk) 18:58, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

About one person does per day. So not many, but also not noone. And WP:REDIRECTSARECHEAP. Daranios (talk) 10:40, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: I do not see it necessary for this to exist and so without encyclopedic context my decision is to eliminate. Alon9393 (talk) 05:24, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with List of Marvel Comics characters: I. --Rtkat3 (talk) 17:16, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. This doesn't have enough coverage to support even a mention. But I'd accept a redirect and a brief mention for the sake of WP:CONSENSUS and WP:ATD. Shooterwalker (talk) 18:26, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting as arguments are divided between Delete and Merge.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:28, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: For those on the fence, merge is a valid outcome despite some contrary responses above - see this and this recent AFD. BOZ (talk) 03:30, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Notability has not been demonstrated. Cortador (talk) 21:09, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Cortador: But notability is only a critereon for keeping stand-alone articles, not for article content. So why not look for WP:Alternatives to deletion, as the notability guideline suggests: Non-notable topics with closely related notable articles or lists are often merged into those pages. Daranios (talk) 10:24, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Gold Apollo AR924

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Doesn't seem to pass WP:NPRODUCT. Seems only notable within the context of the 2024 Lebanon pager explosions, and doesn't appear to warrant a standalone article. Article did not exist prior to the explosions, nor seemingly any reliable sources covering it, failing the "sustained coverage" requirement of NPRODUCT. Hemiauchenia (talk) 00:00, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Products, Technology, Taiwan, Lebanon, and Hungary. Hemiauchenia (talk) 00:00, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Copying here what I wrote when I WP:PRODded this article yesterday:

This particular model of pager seems to be notable only in the context of the 2024 Lebanon pager explosions. I can find no mention of "Gold Apollo AR-924," "Gold Apollo AR924" or "Gold Apollo AR" outside of news sources reporting the Israeli bombings. "Gold Apollo pager" returns only results for these news articles, the company's website, patent documents, and similar. The sources currently cited at the article fail the criteria for addressing the article topic "directly," as in the "significant coverage" criteria of WP:GNG.

While the particular model of pager is likely to receive a good amount of (temporary) media scrutiny from a few outlets, this will likely be only in the context of the above-mentioned bombings. Although WP:SUSTAINED does not apply to non-BLP articles, WP:NPRODUCT does, and although secondary sources refer to this particular device, there seems to be no claim to notability outside of this single event, for which we already have an article. Thus, I believe this article fails to establish notability for the topic, and our status as not an indiscriminate collection of information is applicable. Evan ^{(talk|contribs)} 00:06, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The model exists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x50wwGjX2Ao

and

https://web.archive.org/web/20240917160632/https://www.apollosystemshk.com/product/42.html Mheretakis (talk) 23:06, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would be wise to wait as evidence unfolds, hiding the page ,may be misinterpreted as corruption even though it is not. 38.9.2.102 (talk) 11:46, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nobody here is suggesting this information should be hidden. Information about the attack has it's own article. The only information specific to this article is just the features of this device, which are not secret. This discussion is about if this article is notable enough to exist, not if it should be censored. Thank you 2603:6011:9440:D700:CC1F:F350:E9EB:5F48 (talk) 13:15, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete No other model of pager produced by the company exists on Wikipedia, information related to this product should be at most made a small section on the manufacturer's page. Beyond recent events, it is otherwise completely irrelevant to anything other than the company. JohnWarosa (talk) 01:21, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete was a completely non-notable model of pager until this recent news story. Andre🚐 01:24, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
~~Keep~~ → Speedy keep. This is a weapon used in an attack. With up to 4000 victims, the event can have multiple articles. Possibly move to BAC Consulting. The technical details of the pager are not important, but the supply chain is. Note, that other weapons (talkie-talkies) were also used in the attack. The key question the article needs to answer is who made the pagers and who is responsible for their safety, Gold Apollo or BAC Consulting. Protecting Gold Apollo from bad publicity is not a reason for deleting the article. If they go bankrupt because of this, they fully deserve it. They had a responsibility to protect their trade mark.

P.S. - Wikipedia has an article on Stuxnet, but no article on the attack itself or the damage it caused. The Stuxnet article focuses on the weapon and on how it was delivered. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 01:48, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is very flawed. The weapon was the explosives. Stuxnet was specific malware that exploited four zero day Windows vulnerabilities, and the article is about the engineered malware, and not about the model of USB drive it initially infected. But also that argument is off the point. The pager product is only notable if there are reliable independent secondary sources that significantly discuss the pager (not the attack, but the actual pager). Do we have any such sources? Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 07:34, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Petri Krohn; There is an article for the attack itself. Parham wiki (talk) 13:31, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am now changing my !vote to speedy keep. It is becoming evident that the AR924 was not just some random Gold Apollo pager intercepted by Mossad (presumedly), but it was designed and manufactured by the Israelis using the Hungarian company BAC Consulting as a front. This implies that this was a multi-year Israeli operation, started in 2022 at the latest. This covert operation is distinct from the bloodshed that happened in Lebanon this week. I am redirecting BAC Consulting, to the article, as evidently the fake company had no other purpose than to produce these killer pagers.

@Parham wiki; Thank you for the link to Operation Olympic Games. In the Stuxnet case the article on the weapon is ten times as long as the article on the attack itself. I believe we will see a similar trend here. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 19:41, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. - Someone has stated Draft:BAC Consulting. I have suggested that it be merged to Gold Apollo AR924. The company is a fake front, established solely to produce the AR924 killer pagers. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 20:11, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You should only bold one of your keeps. By convention at AfD we only bold our !votes once. Also you have not specified a speedy criterion. I don't think any are eligible. I think you mean you are moving from keep to keep. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 19:53, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Gold Apollo#2024 Israeli tampering and explosions in Lebanon per WP:REDUNDANTFORK, WP:SPINOUT, and WP:LENGTH. The parent article has existed since 2014 and has plenty of room to house this information, which is already there in its essential form. No need to delete this highly searchable term since it is a verified product which has been rendered notable by recent events. Havradim leaf a message 01:57, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Many thousands of these devices exploded the other day, injuring, maiming or killing nearly 3000 people. This device is now by far the most notable pager/beeper ever made. This device is at the very center of one of the most dramatic and historic espionage and irregular warfare operations in human history that is certain to be studied and analyzed for many years to come. Already, numerous reliable sources worldwide are discussing this device in great detail, and it boggles my mind that some editors think that this article should be summarily removed. Cullen328 (talk) 08:28, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The flaw in this argument is that the exact make and model of pager that was manipulated does not provide justification for an article. Similarly, we have Bulgarian umbrella that details how umbrellas have been rebuilt into a murder weapon - but without creating an article on the actual model of umbrella that was modified - exactly because the make and model of the modified implement does not in itself provide it with notability. Lklundin (talk) 11:45, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that model may have only been made as a weapon by a covert manufacturer. Hungary denies involvement, says BAC was just a legal front. The page should be about AR924 the weapon. Keysersmoze (talk) 09:38, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The point is that the discussion of this device and the supply chain should be in the main explosion article, which is currently a small fraction of the size that would warrant a WP:SIZESPLIT. Hemiauchenia (talk) 13:25, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per arguments of Cullen328. PhotographyEdits (talk) 09:10, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Per the arguments of Cullen328 the information about the attack is highly important. A separate article on the pager that itself is notable only for the attack prevents a centralized and well organized presentation of the information on these explosions. Lklundin (talk) 09:14, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep or move to BAC page. Please count my vote. Flegozoff (talk) 12:04, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Votes are not counted, consensus is determined based on the strength of arguments. PhotographyEdits (talk) 12:47, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The event is a historical first time. This product became important, indeed people looked on Wikipedia for this article (and it is good that they found it).Sinucep (talk) 14:09, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The device is notable. Whether or not it was notable a week ago is irrelevant. —danhash (talk) 14:10, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is it? What sources do we have? I asked this above and so far we have been presented with no sources to consider. We are looking for significant coverage of the product in multiple reliable independent secondary sources. No amount of saying it is notable is good enough. Where are the sources? Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 15:30, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are currently 19 sources on the article —danhash (talk) 16:32, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Which of these meet WP:NPRODUCT and WP:SIRS? Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 16:44, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

keep I am a deletionist when it comes to mobiles, and similar devices. But as this device was a centre/key point in a major attack, many reliable sources have covered the device significantly (thus meeting WP:significant coverage) making it pass the WP:GNG, so it doesn't have to pass WP:NPRODUCT specifically. —usernamekiran (talk) 19:58, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. There are already articles for both the attack and the company who had the pager manufactured. Some information could go there. There are a lot of sources mentioning the pager, but only in the context of the attack. Specific coverage is lacking. Cortador (talk) 21:06, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The alleged usage of this device in Lebanon makes this particular model of pager notable, regardless of whether similar models are on Wikipedia. Those similar models did not just explode in masse, killing and injuring people. 96.45.23.79 (talk) 15:19, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep If it was not notable before, the major attacks using this device make it notable now. Keeper of the Queen's Corgis (talk) 16:52, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Edited and updated, not deleted. It should be about the AR924 mass produced and used in conflict weapon, not an article about a pager model. The story is developing and it appears this model may have only been produced as a weapon and not in Hungary which was a shell front. As a page about a weapon, it should be kept for the same reason "Little Boy" has a page, even though no one heard about it until after it exploded over Hiroshima, and it was also only used once. I am sure there is a page about the Manhattan Project, and one about the Hiroshima bombing. Yet the bomb itself has its own page. Notable weapons, especially the first of their type, need their own page because weapons have a design, explosive type and mass, range and effect, delivery method, an assembly, a development process, country that developed it, countries that possess it, number produced, uses in war. The AR924 is clearly notable for reasons mentioned by others and some of the reasons Little Boy is notable. Keysersmoze (talk) 08:44, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Keeper of the Queen's Corgis and Cullen328, but most of all per Keysersmoze's comment above. The first instance of an entirely new kind of weapon; mass-manufactured booby-trapped remote-detonated personal devices. — The Anome (talk) 07:56, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, if these are specifically manufactured as a booby trap device and are not a standard pager that was modified with a logic board and explosive, then it clearly becomes notable. But, what are the secondary sources that show this please? We have a lot of keeps, but still there is still no source discussion at all. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 11:36, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment given this article is not notable outside the attack on Hezbollah - and given half the article is about the attack, what if this page is deleted and a brief summary of the features of these pager's features is added to 2024 Lebanon pager explosions, as it could provide a little context as to why Hezbollah chose these pagers. Once deleted, this article and BAC Consulting should redirect to 2024 Lebanon pager explosions, as both are solely notable for that attack (BAC Consulting was created exclusively for the attack; it can't be notable for anything else). If these pagers were used in another completely separate attack, or were popular outside of Hezbollah/Lebanon and Syria prior to the attack, then I would keep. However, that is not the case. We don't have a crystal ball, but it seems unlikely very many people will buy this specific brand after this incident.2603:6011:9440:D700:CC1F:F350:E9EB:5F48 (talk) 13:09, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge with 2024 Lebanon pager explosions - the model was at the center of the attack, and outside of it is not notable. 三葉草 San Yeh Tsao 18:18, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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