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Commons:Deletion requests/German currency after 1953

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

German currency after 1953

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See the files

Discussion

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Above files currently do not have a valid license, since they are using {{PD-GermanGov-currency}} which was deprecated years ago (see COM:CUR#Germany). They are also younger than 70 years and unlikely to be in Public domain, due to age (using {{PD-old-70}}, {{PD-anon-70-EU}} or {{PD-Germany-§134-KUG}}). --Jarekt (talk) 23:18, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@32X: Its hard to say where the threshold of originality or consensus about it is for those types of designs. I tried to look for examples of prior examples or precedent but couldn't find any. I'm more then willing to change my opinion if someone can find DRs with similar artwork that were kept due to the design being to simple to retain a copyright though. --Adamant1 (talk) 18:34, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
32X, The reason to delete File:GermanyDemRepPFX7-500Mark-1979-donatedmjd f.jpg is because it has no license. If you want to propose a license for that file please do and we can discuss it, but typically files with not license are speed deleted. --Jarekt (talk) 18:46, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The comment in question has been: “ Delete For the paper currency and front sides of the coins.  Keep For the reverses of the coins since i don't think the Weimar eagle is copyrighted.”
Based on exact that line, I ask you: Jarekt, why do you think, images of paper money that have no license have to go, while images of reverses of the coins without license might stay? -- regards, 32X (talk) 19:01, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
32X I think they both have to go unless we find some license template that allow us to keep them. I do not know what license template Adamant1 was thinking about proposing for backs of coins. --Jarekt (talk) 19:16, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So, I stumble over a comment, and take a randon image against that comment. Then you join in, and advise out of context for deletion. Thank your for your contribution. That frees us from the need to see, what could be kept by other reasons. -- cheers, 32X (talk) 19:26, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just to get this back on track, the reverses of the coins containing the Weimar eagle can be licensed as "PD-Old" or whatever the comparable license is for Germany. What license to use on the paper currency is less clear though. I don't think the designs are simple enough to be below the threshold of originality and I'm not sure what else there is outside of that. So it's probably better to just delete the images baring a better option. --Adamant1 (talk) 19:50, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Adamant1 I would agree with you on the eagle part if they were all the same as an eagle on some earlier PD-old coin. However looking at the actual coins: they are all different, so they seem like they were all redesigned from scratch for each coin. So I think it might be a bit like with Coats of arms: concept of the eagle is PD and anybody can draw one, but the specific visual depiction on each coin would be copyrighted, unless it is identical to some PD representation. --Jarekt (talk) 02:55, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I can't find the exact images I was basing my original opinion on right now, but at least a few of the coins looked pretty close to exiting designs of the Weimar eagle. Maybe not exactly 100% the same but that's not the bar for something to not be a durative work anyway. That said, maybe @Rosenzweig: can give their opinion if they don't mind since they have experience in the area and participated in the Village Pump discussion. I'm fine with changing my vote to "delete all" if it turns out that the eagles are above the threshold of originality. --Adamant1 (talk) 03:58, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Isderion, in case of bank notes based on paintings, we have to consider copyright of the painting. In case of banknotes based on PD-old paintings we do not need to worry about the painting part, but there is still copyright of the banknote designer. --Jarekt (talk) 12:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe it's different for currency, but at least with stamps I've found that there's usually no consensus to delete modern stamps that are based on older public domain works even with considerations of the stamp designer and usually with other elements being involved. I've always found that rather shaky myself, but least on here it seems like people don't think whatever is added to the stamp containing artwork that's otherwise PD isn't enough to generated a new copyright. Although I don't think it would ever hold up in court, but it is what it is. --Adamant1 (talk) 17:12, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Adamant1, if there is a decision to keep those file, we would have to figure out some license template to add, as currently they have no valid license and clog Category:Files with no machine-readable license category. All files on Commons have to have a license (than we can argue if the license is valid), and those files are a small subset of files using {{PD-GermanGov-currency}} for which we are the least likely to find a valid PD license, or at least PD license based on age. --Jarekt (talk) 18:40, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: deleted most, but also kept some which I think are below COM:TOO Germany. The eagles on the coins are indeed individual designs, and accd. to de:Bundeswappen Deutschlands#Die Adler im Deutschen Bundestag such artistic designs of the federal coat of arms can be copyrighted. Some of the West German bills are based on paintings, but the engravings created for them are sufficiently different from the original paintings to merit protection.

The East German Forum Schecks are basically just guilloches and simple letters, the 1955 East German bills are also just ornaments and letters, and the close-ups of some security measures are also ornaments and simple graphics. If they're below COM:TOO Germany, they weren't protected on the URAA date in Germany, and their US copyrights were not restored. Though I could see them being below COM:TOO US as well. For the rest, I've added notes, identified the designers and noted the years in which the files can be restored. --Rosenzweig τ 05:29, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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